Is anyone watching this Trump car crash?

[soundsys]

WTF is happening? It’s like some bizarre performance art piece.

He’s holding up signs and shouting and throwing out hats it’s just 🤯

Well it’s certainly not how I’d want my government to be making foreign and economic policy.

A tariff only applies to imported goods, which creates an advantage for locally produced goods.
VAT/other sales taxes apply to all goods, even if they are locally produced, so it doesn’t create an advantage for anyone.
The consumer in the UK basically always pays a 20% sales tax unless the product is exempted and the consumer in the US always pays a local sales tax. The rates are different but they are the same thing.

Coke is made locally in the UK, so wouldn't be subject to tarrifs.

There won't be a US-made iphone, because even with the tariffs it would still be more expensive than one manufactured in China. And Apple/Foxconn are not going to invest billions in building a factory in the US, only for it to be redundant in 3 and a half years time when the Democrats get back in and repeal these taxes.

Yes.

@whatkatydid2014 a number of states have zero sales tax and even the ones with the highest rates don’t approach anything like 20%. That’s what he’s based his “calculation” on.

Even if it was made in the US it wouldn't be subject to tariffs because the UK has said they are not going to raise retaliatory tariffs.

I think PP who was talking about coke meant she was boycotting US brands - something that many of us have been doing - with some effect, look at Tesla sales figures.

His calculation has been based on trade deficits, not on existing tariffs or taxes at all. So countries that the US has a higher deficit with (like poor old Vietnam and Thailand) get a higher tariff. His claim, for example, that the EU charges a 39% tariff on US goods is a patent lie. The calculation that they used is explained here: https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1907672322988740999

The Donald isn't interested in the distinctions between VAT and import taxes, and advantages/ disadvantages - it's solely seen as a tax.

His position seems to that if the UK & EU apply VAT on most US goods (which they do in addition to import tariffs) then he will reciprocate to level the field.

Actually most of the tariffs introduced yesterday were about 50% of the taxes currently applied to US goods - he pointed this out but not many seem to recognise this. He could double them to match most other countries import taxes or VAT masquerading as a tariff on US goods - but he hasn't, I assume to soften the blow domestically, and perhaps to keep back in reserve should other retaliate.

I suspect he thinks the US is still being screwed over even after this move so there may be more to come.

@Mielikki the US doesn’t have a trade deficit with the UK.

Actually I stand corrected, I see from the latest figures it has moved into a very small deficit in goods.

Is it bronzer? He has little, white ovals around his eyes like you’d get if you wore goggles on a sunbed.

This is astonishing because it assumes that the "good" scenario is one in which every country has a strictly neutral trade balance with every other country, and that makes no sense at all once there are more than 2 countries in the world.

Imagine a very simple model in which country A exports rare earths to country B, which processes them into semiconductors, which are sent to country C for assembly into phones, which are then bought in country A (using the money earned from selling the minerals). A nice circle of trade where everyone wins. But on Trump's logic, A is "ripping off" B, B is "ripping off" C, and C is "ripping off" A.

And even if this did make sense, which it doesn't, he has set a floor tariff of 10%, even on countries that currently buy more goods from the US than it buys from them. So every country is being punished simply for trading with the US, regardless of whether that's a surplus or a deficit. Utter insanity.

The tariffs as set don't bear any relation to any taxes or regulatory burden imposed by countries on US exports. Basically, where the balance of trade is leaning towards US importing from a country and that country not importing very much from the US, the tariff is higher.

So using Lesotho as an example - it's a poor country, it can't afford a lot of imports from the US. But it's a significant importer of clothing into the US. So the tariff is high to reflect that disparity. So Lesotho has imported around $7million from the US annually, while the US has imported $243 million (approx) annually from Lesotho. Hence the massive tariff on Lesothan imports....

Off point from this thread but has Trump inadvertently become the president with best action for the environment. Reduce mass consumerism for cheap imports, reduce transportation around the world. 🤔

And one more thing: These tariffs are only on goods. As we learned during the run-up to Brexit when listening to the "Let's go WTO" no-deal headbangers, trade policy has to consider services, which are interchangeable with goods to a certain extent. But Trump only considers physical goods, because he has the mentality of the man in the pub who knows exactly how the entire world should be run, but has never gone further than their local Tesco.

Madagascar is such a poor country, been there and it touched me.

Ditto Reunion. 37% tariffs. Yet it's a French island in the Pacific, uses the Euro and is part of the EU

These in the administration haven't got a fucking clue.

Apparently so. Look at my post about Reunion island

Possibly offset by him torching the EPA and dismantling every environmental protection and regulation within the US.

I'm not even sure if this article include the administration pulling out of prosecutions that the Biden administration was pursuing against companies that knowingly release carcinogens into local areas.

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-government-attempts-to-rip-up-31-environmental-protections-and-reviews-damage-of-greenhouse-gases-13327636

I loved it.
First politician standing up for the working class I have heard in decades. Working class jobs have been haemorraging to China for decades and Trump is the only western politician to try and stop that to give working class people decent manufacturing jobs, decent pay and their dignity back instead of NMW jobs.
I hope his plan works and that those rust belt workers get a good quality of living again.
Not a single western government gives a stuff about their working class.

He hasn't made any considered calculations, its whatever is in his head at the time, he is, as a former secretary of state said "Deranged"

He is surrounded by YES "advisors" and has a level of self-awareness seen in a 6month old.

As he cannot atm stand for a 3rd term, though anything could happen, he doesn't care about the damage he is causing to allies, the global economy and his own people, who will now see increased inflation, unemployment, lower living standards... but they did vote for him, so ....

We need to cut the US free, stop our obsession with the "Special Relationship" and regain our place in Europe.... if we do not, we will fall between two stools and end up with nothing at all.

As for the state visit, Trump can fuck off!

Precisely. We buy cheap plastic tat because we can courtesy of sweat shops in the far east.
Bring manufacturing back to the West so that jobs once again pay living wages. Yes plastic tat prices will increase but that is a good thing as less of it will end up in the world's oceans. Will it happen? I doubt it, Europeans are too addicted to plastic tat and don't care about the working class not being able to make ends meet or being able to buy a house etc.

No it's not, and that's the danger. His advisers aren't stupid, they know what they want to achieve.

The calculation formula for the tariff calculations can be seen here https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/reciprocal-tariff-calculations and this explains it in plainer english https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/03/how-did-the-us-arrive-at-its-tariff-figures-.html.

But we should be very cautious about dismissing this as "crazy"....

You know greedy CEOs and shareholders could have stopped that haemorrhage at any time by deciding to accept lower profit margins, right? And that he's just raised the cost of daily life for those rust belt workers, right? Those workers made a fundamental mistake when they started down the Rush Limbaugh right wing talk radio rabbit hole and made their own unions obsolete.

And you do understand that he's now tariffed the goods needed for manufacturing?

I highly, highly recommend this podcast to help understand the damage to the manufacturing supply chain this will do. The guest is from the Cato Institute, so hardly left-leaning.

https://www.cato.org/multimedia/media-highlights-tv/scott-lincicome-discusses-trump-administrations-tariffs-bulwark

His plan, if you can call it that, is increased tariffs to allow tax cuts, off setting inflation and help pay for on-shoring of jobs.. but he cannot have both, IF factories re open in the states, that dries up the tariffs....

Of course its Trump and his ilk that caused the off shoring in the first place, the de unionisation of the work force and hence poor pay and conditions in the jobs that replaced manufacturing.... the reason Ford or Boeing workers have well paid jobs is unions, the reason Amazon workers dont is no unions....

Anyone who thinks Trump cares about the average worker is as mad as he is...