Page 4 | Illegal immigration - thread no. 101

NautilusLionfish · 20/03/2025 20:08

WiggyPig · 20/03/2025 13:24

The other big problem with safe routes is that they only work where there is a country at war where everyone's at risk of indiscriminate violence - those who need humanitarian protection rather than refugees.

They wouldn't be feasible for anyone who is a refugee on Convention grounds - someone who fears persecution due to race, religion, political opinion or membership of a particular social group (e.g. gay people). If the government is actively searching for you to lock you up due to being a political dissident or a religious preacher, you can't really make an application at a local embassy and sit back and wait for the outcome.

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Yes. Jamāl Khāshqujī (Khashoggi) being very much publicised example. Others wouldn't be that well publicised.

NautilusLionfish · 20/03/2025 20:16

Some ridiculously erronous thinking about the so called illegal immigrants
1 - Illegal immigrants are automatically bad/criminals - won't even!
2- Illegal immigrants have iphones (pls stop reading the daily heil) so they are rich just want to come here for the benefits - Do people even understand how hard it is for a foreigner to get benefits here? Whether they entered via regularised or unregularised ways
3- Illegal immigrants are uneducated and will only be a burden - It's always a mixed. And even those with low education are often very hardworking and keen to improve themselves
4- Illegal immigrants don't want to use the legal way - Have you ever tried the legal means? Highly expensive, cumbersome (i once submitted over 7kgs of documents), and half the time you can't get an appointment at the embassy
5- Illegal immigrants are not at risk they are just economic* *migrants- is watching your loved ones die of hunger, or because they can't afford food, medicine better than watching them die in a war?

WillimNot · 20/03/2025 20:47

RaininSummer · 20/03/2025 17:18

They aren't actually barbers or even turkish. It's just what they call their businesses. They are refugees from arabic speaking countries usually.

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When we moved in to our business it has a block on the side with accommodation. They were served noticed to leave by the company we are tenants of.

One room had 8 of them from a local barbers in one 6ft by 9ft room. It was ridiculous.
Only one could speak English but only very basic. They immediately started on about their rights and how we couldn't get them to leave. We had enough and the one who was their spokesman was abusive to me. Until I said, well OK stay here then but we will have to get the courts in who will check all of your paperwork.

They moved out the next morning.

Our small town centre has around 8 barbers. 8!

suburburban · 20/03/2025 21:30

WillimNot · 20/03/2025 14:29

What doesn't help is that post Covid many more people are struggling to get by. The fact Boris got involved with Ukraine has helped even less because that's made the cost living horrific.

The honest average working family is finding it harder and harder. And it's not due to mindless spending or anything they've done to cause it.

Very few can now buy their own home- myself included- and many rent at extortionate prices. 90% of those who I rented off before taking on a business that comes with a home were immigrants who bought their and their families council homes in the right to buy era of the 80s. That in itself was a huge cock up, selling off housing stock so now there is barely any left meaning rental bills and by default housing benefit costs are through the roof as renting is pretty much a licence to print money

DH had a friend before we moved who was an immigrant, arriving at age 8 in the late 60s. He was very well off. You'd hope by hard work but sadly not.

He was bragging to DH that during the 80s, families like his would take advantage of the council house system which in his area at the time heavily favoured helping immigrant families. Each one who could got a flat or house, whatever they could. As soon as time had lapsed and they offered them the right to buy for cheap, they did so, and then rented that home out as soon as they were able. They then all purchased one large house and lived together, which, according to the guy, was normal in their society anyway.

Now we have our local council building 4000 new homes and planning, openly, to buy unused property. Not for Brits. They have proudly announced that these will be solely for Afghan and Ukrainian immigrants.

Who have, let's be honest, contributed little if anything to the country

This is exactly why we are seen as the best place to go, why they take such huge risks to cross a dangerous stretch of water.

We had a short period between homes when my last contract ended and my ex boss was being investigated so the building was taken back, along with our home. We asked our local council for help with temporary accommodation and were denied any help at all. Yet I've worked solidly since leaving school and we are constantly told that we will be helped when in need by paying our taxes. We ended up sofa surfing and doing an hour's drive daily for four months to get our teens to school. We even had grief off education welfare despite the fact neither missed a single day of school throughout. We were not important.

That’s why people get so fed up

why are the immigrants getting affordable housing when people who live here can’t.

no wonder our population and birth rates are falling

Odras · 20/03/2025 22:20

AnneElliott · 20/03/2025 17:10

For people arguing for legal routes (basically out of country applications) you need to ask yourself why France, Germany and other EU countries aren’t doing that. I’m sure Greece would be very grateful as they’re taking a significant number of migrants and their system is breaking.

Having worked for the immigration service there’s no easy answer. The French will tell you that we need to introduce ID cards and and stop our generous welfare (that’s their view right from the top of their civil service/police) and that’s why they don’t see the need to stem the flow of migrants from their beaches as they believe the answer is within our own gift.

The French get a higher number of asylum claims than the UK. And French expenditure on social welfare far exceeds the uk. So what are you talking about?

the fact is the EU won’t open more legal routes to asylum because the general population don’t want asylum seekers. This has always been the way. Refugees? Well nobody ever wants them. Nobody wanted Jewish asylum seekers at the time.

You are right about there being no easy answer. People are on the move, due to poverty and conflict and repressive regimes. And it’s only going to get worse. The answers are complex and include funding developing countries that currently have the largest number of refugees, tackling climate change that is fuelling poverty and increasing pressure on repressive governments but the general population won’t want to spend money doing this. They just want them to go away, which they won’t. So yes it is very complicated.

dubsie · 20/03/2025 22:34

MyNameIsX · 20/03/2025 08:08

People smugglers are offering migrants a discount for crossing the Channel if they film their journey so it can be promoted on social media.

Migrants are encouraged to film the journeys and then post them on TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram and Facebook in order to lure others into making the dangerous crossings.

In return, they get a cheaper crossing as the footage boosts business for the smugglers.

The new tactic was revealed by Paul Brisley, from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has been taking down the social media posts in an attempt to stem the crossings.

That's the thing about humans, there's always someone willing to exploit another person.

If you consider the people living in Gaza right now and those fleeing parts of Afghanistan are we surprised that so many make this journey? Are we surprised that criminals take advantage of vulnerable people?

The world is such a troubled place and there are many many people fleeing regimes, fleeing poverty....it's endless. Unfortunately we cant deal with this level of immigration and we need to look at the source and deal with it there....

AnneElliott · 21/03/2025 05:03

What I’m talking about @odrasis the clearly stated French position on UK asylum policy. Which I’m aware of having worked there - unlike the majority of people on the thread.

yes the French get more applications - it would be odd if they didn’t bearing in mind their geography. But lots of claims are deterred by French police who are both violent and racist. You can see that from what happens in the camps.

but the point is no EU country allows out of country applications (other than via UNHCR) and that’s not going to change. Posters calling for that need to properly consider why that’s the case.

HappiestSleeping · 21/03/2025 05:16

WillimNot · 20/03/2025 08:43

The way to stop crossings is to change what makes us a good prospect for migrants on entry.

No benefits, housing or free healthcare for 10 years should be a good start. No hotels, temp accomodation, years of paperwork. Come here legally or don't come at all.

Guest status for ten years that if you commit crime you are immediately removed.

Other countries manage to stem it via harder outcomes for those who do still take a chance. We are too attractive to them with everything available.

When the NHS and other public services are struggling due to health tourism and interpreter costs, not to mention illnesses due to life style choices, we need to do more. The reason they pay smugglers is because we are seen as a land of milk and honey. If we make ourselves hostile financially then watch numbers fall

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Asylum seekers do not get benefits, and are not able to work while their claim is being considered. If asylum is granted, it is reassessed every five years, so the system we actually use is better than the one you propose.

dubsie · 21/03/2025 07:22

Unfortunately we have to make hard choices, and I'm not naive to think all those coming are genuine and all those here in the system aren't working. There are plenty of opportunities in this country to earn money under the radar. Delivery of takeaway's, car wash, farm work, restaurants ,small off the radar building sites....the black market is huge and don't underestimate it.

The more this carries on the more chance we have of letting Farage and his goons into number 10. Then we are screwed because he'll open up this country to Trump style cuts and private equity.

So we have to get tough, and simply fly them straight back to the country of origin without allowing them to claim.asylum. The only exception should be young children and a parent and those we should process properly.

So please keep your values but save them for the people who are struggling in this country and help those abroad by donating money to charities like Oxfam.... Don't be fooled into thinking we can house millions of people from abroad...we can't it really is that simple. They made the choice to cross the channel and enter a country without permission so unfortunately they have no rights to stay and asylum is for those in real danger not young men looking for a better life.

Bromptotoo · 21/03/2025 08:16

@dubsie so if they've been tortured by the Republican Guards we sent them back to Tehran?

Thoughtsonstuff · 21/03/2025 08:18

Bromptotoo · 21/03/2025 08:16

@dubsie so if they've been tortured by the Republican Guards we sent them back to Tehran?

I think the last sentence of her post answers your question?

User32459 · 21/03/2025 08:23

LadyKenya · 20/03/2025 08:38

I think open safe routes for people.

There are loads of safe routes. They're called visas.

dodgyplant · 21/03/2025 08:24

Southwestten · 20/03/2025 14:44

Look at the infantile language we use..." gangs" " small boats" and so on

What words should be used for ‘gangs’ or the sea-going vessels?

Traffickers possibly? Sea-going vessels?

User32459 · 21/03/2025 08:31

dodgyplant · 20/03/2025 12:02

I think many people would agree things are in an almighty mess. But racism is not the way forward.
Look at the infantile language we use..." gangs" " small boats" and so on. And the racist language " illegals"
Ironic someboyd mentions Churchill. His Grandson is a major player in SERCO, an organisation that has made billions on the back of this chaos.

I'm sure his granddad would be proud at the part he's playing in destroying the country he saved from the abyss.

KvotheTheBloodless · 21/03/2025 08:33

Bromptotoo · 20/03/2025 08:59

I'm not bothered whether people agree with me or not. My view is that stopping irregular arrivals is best managed by having regular routes.

In reality, for all the hoo hah, the number coming via small boats are a drop in the ocean.

Around 40,000/year while 800,000 come in on visas to work, study and join family.

Rishi Sunak now admits the focus on 'Stop the Boats' was mistaken.

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It's less about numbers and more about the danger to human life of crossing the Channel in a flimsy inflatable boat. Also the security element - lots of young men arrive this way, some of whom are criminals who wouldn't get through a legal route.

User32459 · 21/03/2025 08:35

AnneElliott · 20/03/2025 17:10

For people arguing for legal routes (basically out of country applications) you need to ask yourself why France, Germany and other EU countries aren’t doing that. I’m sure Greece would be very grateful as they’re taking a significant number of migrants and their system is breaking.

Having worked for the immigration service there’s no easy answer. The French will tell you that we need to introduce ID cards and and stop our generous welfare (that’s their view right from the top of their civil service/police) and that’s why they don’t see the need to stem the flow of migrants from their beaches as they believe the answer is within our own gift.

Britain is the world's soft touch.

People who break into the country get treated better than folk born here.

Bromptotoo · 21/03/2025 08:58

User32459 · 21/03/2025 08:35

Britain is the world's soft touch.

People who break into the country get treated better than folk born here.

Edited

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You've literally no idea have you.

Odras · 21/03/2025 10:08

AnneElliott · 21/03/2025 05:03

What I’m talking about @odrasis the clearly stated French position on UK asylum policy. Which I’m aware of having worked there - unlike the majority of people on the thread.

yes the French get more applications - it would be odd if they didn’t bearing in mind their geography. But lots of claims are deterred by French police who are both violent and racist. You can see that from what happens in the camps.

but the point is no EU country allows out of country applications (other than via UNHCR) and that’s not going to change. Posters calling for that need to properly consider why that’s the case.

Well my understanding was that the French have criticised the UK for their lack of coordination and information sharing to stop the small boats. By saying aslyum policy it sounds like you are saying that the UK is a soft touch or something when there isn’t vast differences between asylum benefits.

But sure resettling via UNCHR is what people are calling for. This is already in existence. Increasing the numbers taken in via UNCHR would be ideal or the expansion of schemes like the Afghan scheme which is also dependent on the UNCHR.

Odras · 21/03/2025 10:15

User32459 · 21/03/2025 08:35

Britain is the world's soft touch.

People who break into the country get treated better than folk born here.

Edited

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Iran and Turkey are the largest refugee hosting countries. Not Britain. Refugees make up less than half a percent of the population.

wrongthinker · 21/03/2025 10:17

I feel like even a few months ago it would have been impossible to have this conversation on here without it devolving into a huge bun fight and eventually being taken down because of all the back and forth.

It gives me some hope that people are beginning to see that it's okay to speak up about this. Uncontrolled immigration is a huge problem across the UK and politicians need to actually start DOING something about it. I don't want a far right government here but I think that's what we'll end up getting one way or another if the government doesn't tackle this issue properly.

I don't know how we stop or reverse immigration at the level we now have it. How do you stop millions of people coming here? What do you do with the millions already here? It's definitely a complex issue but we've got to tackle it. Being allowed to have calm discussions and debates feels like a good step forward.

Odras · 21/03/2025 10:19

@wrongthinker but sure looking at the figures it seems that most people are coming into the UK via visa schemes?

So it’s not uncontrollable at all.

wrongthinker · 21/03/2025 11:15

Odras · 21/03/2025 10:19

@wrongthinker but sure looking at the figures it seems that most people are coming into the UK via visa schemes?

So it’s not uncontrollable at all.

Well there's illegal immigration, which successive governments have failed to do anything about. Then there's legal immigration which is now in the million or so per year. It seems like it's hard for governments to curb this or reduce this number, maybe they think it would be unpopular to try?

Of course there are solutions. But I don't think the solutions are necessarily that straightforward. But maybe I'm wrong. I suspect the key missing ingredient is the political will to push this forward.

Papyrophile · 21/03/2025 11:27

Change the rule on legal migration to require that when the job contract or course ends, the visa is cancelled. No right to bring dependents below a minimum salary (far above NMW). And double the qualification period for indefinite leave to remain.

Bromptotoo · 21/03/2025 11:30

Papyrophile · 21/03/2025 11:27

Change the rule on legal migration to require that when the job contract or course ends, the visa is cancelled. No right to bring dependents below a minimum salary (far above NMW). And double the qualification period for indefinite leave to remain.

All of those are in place already.

Odras · 21/03/2025 11:32

wrongthinker · 21/03/2025 11:15

Well there's illegal immigration, which successive governments have failed to do anything about. Then there's legal immigration which is now in the million or so per year. It seems like it's hard for governments to curb this or reduce this number, maybe they think it would be unpopular to try?

Of course there are solutions. But I don't think the solutions are necessarily that straightforward. But maybe I'm wrong. I suspect the key missing ingredient is the political will to push this forward.

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The UK have focused a lot about small boats. I’ve no idea if that is the main source of illegal immigration. I would imagine not. But they have scapegoated the small boats people to give the impression they are doing something.

There is a lot of legal immigration because with a static and aging population, this is what the UK needs. So I very much doubt they will be “tackling” it.