Illegal immigration - thread no. 101

[MyNameIsX]

People smugglers are offering migrants a discount for crossing the Channel if they film their journey so it can be promoted on social media.

Migrants are encouraged to film the journeys and then post them on TikTok, Snapchat, Instagram and Facebook in order to lure others into making the dangerous crossings.

In return, they get a cheaper crossing as the footage boosts business for the smugglers.

The new tactic was revealed by Paul Brisley, from the National Crime Agency (NCA), which has been taking down the social media posts in an attempt to stem the crossings.

Agree:

Present-day Sweden carries the dubious distinction of having the highest rate of gangland killings in Europe. It boasts the lowest average age of serious offenders, with children in their low teens being arrested for murder. Increasing segments of suburbs are officially classified as “especially vulnerable areas,” where it is “hard, bordering on impossible” for the police to operate. In layman’s terms, these are no-go zones, where local clans rule and where first responders will not enter without flak jackets and police escort.

Sadly a lot of people (I'd like to say bleeding heart liberals but maybe that's too reductive) have their head buried in the sand and will only sit up and take notice when it's too late. Probably when the above type of behaviour hits their town.

That's awful. These people are human beings but the way some people speak of them you'd think they were another species.

Because they don't have proper ID or travel documents and they don't meet traditional visa requirements. Nobody is choosing to use smugglers over getting a visa?!

If you are from Sudan, have a real fear of persecution based on your ethnicity, and have relatives in the UK by what legal route can you join them?

I honestly don't know the answer to that - what are the reasons for specifically Sudan not having a legal route?

In an ideal world we would take in and look after everyone being persecuted wouldn't we? But we don't live in that world. Services need paying for by the taxpayers. There needs to be enough housing/schools/ infrastructure. And there isn't - not even for the people who live here now.

They could get a job with a work visa that pays the minimum needed to be self-sufficient in this country? Or sign up to study something and better their prospects and then get a job here? Those are legal routes to immigrate into this country.

Or if cost of living is too high and earning potential too low and for some reason they are unable to upskill via a course in the UK, they could go to any safe country with lower COL where earning less will make them self-sufficient. The country doesn't have to be universally perfect, just safe for them.

The UK isn't a rehab centre for broken people from all over the world and it's not our job to fix everyone from everywhere else. We are allowed to have boundaries and limits on what we are willing to do, like every other country worldwide does (except possibly Sweden).

As the song goes, You can't hug every cat.

Our streets are full of Turkish barber shops which cant possibly be properly employing and training all the chaps who hang out there. Legal routes would be no good to many of the immigrants I see as they are often enonomic migrants.

There should not be an unfettered ability to emigrate to other countries. These things need to be handled at diplomatic and political level.

It’s not for the existing population, the tax payer, the school parent who cannot obtain a place for their child, those who cannot obtain housing support, the patient struggling to get a GP appointment etc. - to pick up the pieces.

Then you get the inevitable backlash you have seen in the US and elsewhere.

I selected Sudan as it's riven by Civil War. It could equally have been Syria, Iraq and any number of 'failed states'.

There are pretty well NO viable safe routes.

@BobbyBiscuits Genuine question - what happens when they enter Europe, are they not processed at this point? And if so, would they really not have any travel documents?

Alternatively the way to disrupt the people smuggling business is to detain and then deport all illegal immigrants. There'd be a lot less demand to be smuggled into the UK if illegal economic migrants knew they had no chance of staying in the UK.

But how can we viably take them all? How many is too many?

I'm not being heartless - just practical. If they are migrants who are genuinely fleeing war torn countries that's horrendous and we are incredibly privileged to not be in that situation. Of course you have sympathy but how long can we continue to provide what we don't have?

The videos I've seen on SM like those mentioned in the OP are economic migrants - they're young men all laughing and cheering and holding iPhones - they're not fleeing war torn countries.

As with the previous 100 threads,

There is no such thing as an "illegal" or "bogus" person seeking asylum. Under international law, anyone has the right to apply for asylum in any country that has signed the 1951 Convention and to remain there until the authorities have assessed their claim.

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/stay-informed/explainers/the-truth-about-asylum/

@Rosybud88 no, they're not. The smugglers are very keen for them not to have contact with the authorities for obvious reasons - and even those who do encounter the authorities in Italy or Greece for example can't be given travel documents by those countries, unless they are granted status there.

it is absurd to use compassion as a sole response to this issue. What about compassion for our own country and how it’s being undermined. We are all jumping into the sea, saving no one at all.

@Bromptotoohow many people are you talking about from Sudan or any country in similar situations?

In my world you won't get access to a safe route unless you can show (a) a prima facie claim for Asylum and (b) a connection to the UK.

We'd also need to restore the means to return people to the EU.

Turkish barbers are extremely unlikely to have entered as refugees - they have a bespoke route under the Ankara Agreement.

I think many people would agree things are in an almighty mess. But racism is not the way forward.
Look at the infantile language we use..." gangs" " small boats" and so on. And the racist language " illegals"
Ironic someboyd mentions Churchill. His Grandson is a major player in SERCO, an organisation that has made billions on the back of this chaos.

A ‘connection to the UK’.

So, following your example - let’s say your Sudanese asylum seeker has family already in the UK. Let’s say that the family have failed to assimilate into our society (I will let you use your imagination as to what that might mean). Let’s say that they are therefore consequently dependent on benefits.

Would you still be supportive of those open channels to the UK?

Stop there - don’t even think about playing the R card - it’s utter nonsense for the majority.

Just stop.

We're coming at this from different perspectives and debate is of limited value since neither of us is going to change our stance.

I'll agree to differ.

I really want the government to get a grip on this for lost of reasons. Not least because I know lots of people who are visibly “immigrant” (ie: dark skinned, even if the family has been here for a few generations) and I really don’t want a backlash against them.

I am an immigrant and while I don’t look English, I’m lucky that I’m pale enough and wear western dress that I don’t get any hassle.

Other countries limit immigration. We are a small island and we cannot handle the sheer numbers of people coming in.

Then there are all the problems associated with bringing low skilled young men into the country from regions rife with misogyny, racism and homophobia.

There needs to be fewer people allowed in and many more rules and safeguards to protect the existing population.

Oh great for raising awareness. There are about a thousand people I know that want to move here and can't do it legally. I will ask them to check out social media. Any accounts specifically? Do you know if they offer refer a friend discounts or vouchers I can spend in foreign shops like Lidl and IKEA?
Thanks again op for raising awareness