Every one so up in arms about trump, but what about…

[admirible]

1. JFK supported by the mob who paid for him to come into power.
2. JFK Cuban missile crisis.
3. Clinton M impeachment not to mention starting strikes on irak to detract from it.
4. Clinton F did not win the seats, Bernie did, the old guard of the party let down the voters,
5. Biden senile couldn’t string a coherent sentence throughout term of office.

No they aren't. I just want to be able to understand the other perspective/side of the argument!

@wholettheturnipsburn thanks for your post - understand your point now!

Well now the Americans are sitting down with Putin to negotiate an agreement over a war in Europe with No actual European representatives there we are bloody right to be very disturbed by what's going on with the Americans.

@Cantonet

"Well now the Americans are sitting down with Putin to negotiate an agreement over a war in Europe with No actual European representatives there we are bloody right to be very disturbed by what's going on with the Americans."

As Zelensky put it today "The old days are over when America supported Europe just because it always had".

So if Europe is upset about a lack of presence at the negotiating table then they could always increase their military spending to 5% of GDP and threaten to continue military support of Ukraine and replace American support. But it seems a bit rich for Europeans to complain about US taxpayers not willing to continue supporting Ukraine when European taxpayers aren't.

@1dayatatime

To be honest I'm astonished by the sheer cheek of the eu doing little to protect itself all this time, why are they still messing around with military spending budgets? Whats the excuse? They thought Democrats would win?
Carry on taking American money?

It's embarrassing. They should have been in a position to say, look since the last trump request to increase spending we have and we've made huge progress however we are not there yet.
I'm sure that would be met with more respect than here we are failing away, doing diddly squat against the big Russian bear.
Catastrophic failings again.

I don't know why anyone is surprised: Trump is doing exactly what he said he would. The problem is that few people have taken him seriously until now, and this weird complacence cost the Dems the election and the rest of the world a much more uncertain future. JD Vance's speech in Munich was nothing short of extraordinary. Full speech here:
https://www.youtube.com/live/pCOsgfINdKg?si=ZUAXOj6lEEH0BJDz
The Munich conference was meant to be about security threats to Western allies. Vance turned it into a lecture on why European countries should leave the door open to all extremes, even if those extremes were the result of manipulation on social media financed by foreign bad actors. He even went so far as to suggest there may be a world in which Europe is not considered worthy of defending. He basically spent 20 minutes meddling with Europe and especially Germany's domestic politics. Not what the forum was about at all.
That's the one thing I personally never expected. It's one thing if Musk does it but quite another if it's the elected VP.

Except European countries and the EU have provided more military aid to Ukraine than the US has.

@HaveYouTrumped

Actually the Europeans were first told to increase their military spending and not be reliant on US support by JFK back in the early 60s, so it's not as though they haven't had enough warning. Trump then followed up with a threat to pull out of NATO in his first presidency if Europe didn't start spending more on military. And they still ignored the warning.

The message has been there for decades however I still think that despite everything going on in Ukraine the European nation will still refuse / not afford higher defence spending. If Ukraine gets thrown under a bus it's as much the Europeans fault for not being able to step up their military support. Maybe this might act as a wake up call to European nations but I doubt it.

And as for accusations of appeasement then Europe is more guilty of this than the US. Russia or China will simply not take your strong words seriously when you don't have a military credibility to back it up and places like Spain and Belgium are spending 1.3% of GDP on defence.

@PlanetJanette

"Except European countries and the EU have provided more military aid to Ukraine than the US has."

Bollocks - you just made that up and to be honest that's part of the misinformation problem here.

Anyway check out yourself the military spending in support of Ukraine per country:

www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/

That shows that I am right.

The combined contribution of aid to Ukraine by the EU and European countries is higher than that of the US.

About €110 billion from Europe compared to €75 billion from the US.

@PlanetJanette

"That shows that I am right.

The combined contribution of aid to Ukraine by the EU and European countries is higher than that of the US.

About €110 billion from Europe compared to €75 billion from the US"

No it doesn't. Your statement was :

"Except European countries and the EU have provided more military aid to Ukraine than the US has."

You just looked at all aid - a large proportion of which is humanitarian assistance to refugees., for example in Poland.

Now go back again and look at the figures for military aid.

Lastly even the type of military aid given by the Europeans is mostly crap out date stuff that they were looking to get rid of anyway.

Please stop with the deliberate misinformation.

Still wrong.

The bulk of ‘non-military’ aid in that data is financial aid, not humanitarian aid. Of course financial aid to a country at war is essentially military aid. The distinction is meaningless because the aid will be largely spent for military purposes.

Even if you look at purely military aid in that data, it is roughly even between the US and Europe. But it’s nonsense to exclude financial aid and pretend that it’s not funding Ukraines military activity.

How about I reframe my statement - the EU and European Countries are funding the Ukrainian war effort to a much greater extent than the US.

@1dayatatime

Lastly even the type of military aid given by the Europeans is mostly crap out date stuff that they were looking to get rid of anyway.

Most countries don't have a current military stockpile to send as aid. The US keeps an incredible inventory of aircraft, missiles, tanks, drones etc. but they have an annual eye-watering budget to match. Your expectations are unreasonable here.

How about I reframe my statement - the EU and European Countries are funding the Ukrainian war effort to a much greater extent than the US.

Can I refrain again:

How about I reframe my statement - the EU and European Countries are funding the defence of Ukraine against a hostile invasion by Russia and North Korea to a much greater extent than the US.

I say this as an American, albeit one who despises Trump et al and expected the worst from them.

It was astonishing and embarrassing to a new level. The hubris was mind-boggling. What they are doing, the dangers they are courting, are incomprehensible.

Yes, I feel very very sorry for all Americans who don't support this administration. You have my sympathies. In the meantime over here, a lot of us are getting seriously worried about our future...

Trump is a blow hard, I heard him talking about de nuking....in his words. He is not serious it's all talk...they are spending billions on hypersonic nukes, so are China and Russia....it's a race to get the best weapons. Even if they use Musks starlink to protect the US the Chinese and Russians will develop weapons to kills satellites. He was even saying China are 6 years behind....from what I've heard they are about 2 years ahead in hypersonic technology....they flew a ballistic missile over the US are they hardly noticed until it had passed.

If anything Trump isolationism will likely increase the spread of weapons of mass destruction.

@MarsScarlet I think that's the current issue, they don't have this budget anymore and they need to be carful where this money goes.

China is the greater threat.

I'm not sure I completely understand your post, but these are in no way comparable.

Whatabout

Whatabout

WHATABOUTERY.

You Trumpbots need to try harder. You’re going back to Clinton and JFK??

Have a seat luv.