Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit

[BearBuggy]

I know there are a few families that find themselves in rotten circumstances and this isn’t aimed at them . However I live in an area where having children to continue to receive benefits was the norm and only now the cap is in place has that stopped.

The Scottish government has now announced it will be scrapped. I am so angry I’m paying towards people breeding children they can’t afford. I didn’t vote SNp this time because of this, as did many of my friends. They lost heavily in my area but still seem to not care what the tax payer is saying.

Vouchers do not work all that happens is items cost more and you can’t use eBay, Vinted, charity shops, the local market etc. and the tiny minority of parents who don’t prioritise their children would sell a £30 coat for a fiver anyway.

do you expect other countries to take you in in the event of war or massive targetted attack on the UK

I think that's unlikely.

Nonetheless, net migration in France for 2022-2023 was 183k. That's less than a fifth ours, for a very similarly sized population.

Germany's was 660k (30% lower than us despite a slightly larger existing population) and they have recognised that it has caused social problems.

There is nothing stopping any young person with no dependants applying for social housing.

I can't tell you you are "wrong" when it's not remotely clear what your point even is.

It’s ridiculous OP. I grew up in a deprived area where my peers used to laugh at me for wanting to go to university or get a job. They would say, why would you bother when the government will give you a council house when you have a baby.., and where I grew up it was always a council house and not a measly flat.

I have family members who don’t work, claim benefits illegally and
go on multiple holidays a year. Their children are all dressed in designer clothes and they are always eating takeaways, going the
pub etc.

I also have a friend who can’t afford to be a SAHM as her husband doesn’t earn quite enough for that however because she felt entitled to this luxury, she pretended she separated from her husband in order to receive benefits and a council home. She is even thinking of sending her kids to a private school when the time comes as financially she can afford that now.

It’s not just a minority, its v common that people take advantage.

I'll never understand a) why people treat the entire UK GDP as if it's their own personal income that they earned single handedly; and b) why they get mad about this but not Liz Truss spunking billions on nothing or dodgy private company deals or shady fake covid scams.

There'd be no point in a young working adult (sans children) applying for social housing, because they'd never get to the top of the list; for the reasons I've (clearly) set out.

Again, this is nonsense.

By far the largest shortfall in social housing in central Scotland is one bedroom, single occupancy properties. This has only been exacerbated by the surge in buy-to-let snapping up any small flat that hits the market and driving rents up the point whereby young people can't afford private rent.

Young people without children do not qualify for offers of multi-bedroom properties in the first place, because they do not have dependents, so priority goes to those who do.

The way to solve this is either

Kick people with children out of their Social Housing properties in order to free them up for more "responsible" people who do not have children, and ignore the fact this renders children homeless.

or

Build more social housing, which you've already stated you believe is part of some nefarious SNP plan.

Your assertion that young "responsible" people will never "get to the top of the list" because of irresponsible people with children is nonsense, because the two are not eligible for, or competing for the same properties, so they are not on the same "list" to begin with.

If anyone applies for social housing and waits long enough, they'll get offered social housing. The long waits are because of a lack of availability of all types of social housing, but it simply is not true that people with children force "responsible" people to wait longer or deny them housing in the first place, because the two are not in competition for the same properties.

To be a net contributor the child needs to earn 35k or more. This is likely to rise above inflation given the increasing costs of healthcare. Many essential jobs in society pay less than that. We might be looking at a situation where we have no carers and the ones we import from overseas- they wouldn't keep coming as birth rates are dropping everywhere.

Richer couples are not having babies. The opportunity costs are too high and not all of them are financial. Infertility has soared. There are countries which provide free or extremely cheap childcare and the birthrate has plummeted anyway because couples with means choose a different path.

So the children should just go without because their parents are low paid or unemployed? They didn’t ask to be born and their parents’ circumstances aren’t their fault. They are children and they deserve being provided for. If the parents can’t or won’t then absolutely the government should. What kind of person must you be to question the financial support of children from the lowest income families?

Quick Google shows £41k is the figure for net contributor so unless you've been teaching for less than 6 years, you earn this.

That aside, we both know that the thread is focused on people who make no positive contribution to society and this contribution can be other than money.

This thread has some very Nasty views

Well more fool them then, because none of us are immune from needing the benefits system at some point in the future, even if we don't now.

No it really is not always their own fault, as you so eloquently put it. Why do you need someone to explain to you why there would be differences in how people with the same money coming in will have different lifestyles? Can you not work it out for yourself that those parents may have had totally different experiences that have shaped how they do things? It is not difficult to try to think about these things, and seek to understand, before rushing to judge.

I think that's brilliant and should be brought in across the UK.

It's not that people mind paying in, it's that they mind always being the ones paying in and never benefitting because they earn too much to get any help.

Once we have paid for everything others get for free or have help paying for, we end up with less than them in the grand scheme of things. Like the childcare cliff edge that encourages people to work part time because once you cross the threshold for help being withdrawn it's almost impossible to earn enough to cover the help you lost and then extra on top to make the effort worth it.

If everyone benefits from paying into the system they are happy to keep paying. It's when they pay for everything and get nothing that people grow sour. Thats why the idea that people who can afford swimming lessons shouldn't be getting child benefit. Well why not? They pay tax like everyone else and actually more tax than most people so their children should get the benefit of that too, not being denied it so that everyone else can have more. When people are taxed to death and then told they shouldn't expect to enjoy the benefits of their contributions to society, they should be happy with only paying and everyone other than them recieving they become disenfranchised.

If you're not, great, but a lot of people I know are sick of paying and the people their taxes support claiming the tax payers paying for their benefits shouldn't get anything because they don't deserve it.

Vouchers would presumably also require more resource, that costs taxpayer money. for the public sector to administer.

I don't have children. The allowances at the time I claimed benefits meant as an under 30, single and childless person who had been made redundant I faced a lot more difficulties and was allowed at lot less help.

My cousin was overjoyed she had twins, as they were exempt from the cap. Cousin has no health issues, has never worked and has no intention of doing so, because the state allows her a comfortable enough life. She's very honest about her situation. She's never used a food bank, she thinks it's insane people have to use them at all...interesting eh?

I 100% back a welfare system. We need it and many people rely on it through no choice of their own, but where do we draw the line? We need to ensure we are working towards a society that protects children, and ensures adults have access to proper education, employment and the ability to move forward.

Well, we know this isn't true, because parents have to go to Jobcentre interviews and get ready for work when their youngest child is 1.

Also, it's much easier as a single adult than as a parent (I've had to apply for benefits in both situations).

Children with parents who survive on benefits are in poverty - they are not living a life of luxury, and they are not in poverty because of feckless parents drinking away the benefits

That's a load of crap

Perhaps the people you think live on benefits are actually criminals ?

But none of this can possibly be true, because a) a single parent with one child receives about £140 a week in benefits after housing costs, to pay for bills, food, travel, clothes, nappies, etc. (so not enough left over for private school fees) and b) after the child is 1, the parent has to look for work (single parents are not allowed to be SAHM, or at least, they're not allowed benefits to do so).

There are sone people on benefits who are also getting large wads of cash from family who are trying to avoid inheritance taxes

Both giver and receiver are criminals

No child should be made to suffer as a result of crap fraud investigations

Mumsnet full of contradictions, on so many other threads 100k isn’t really a high salary and a struggle to live on and everyone has big six figure salaries that they regard as normal, yet over here parents on low enough incomes to need benefit top ups are living lives of luxury and have way more than enough to survive on.

What if you have three kids and you fall upon hard times though? Why should the kids suffer? What if you lose your job and then your car breaks down for example?

Most people claiming benefits are actually working too, that's worth remembering!!

I should have clarified, these people are not in the UK. Absolutely true, I personally know many many more people like this from my hometown.