Not all cultures equally valid, says Kemi Badenoch

[candlewhickgreen]

Badenoch when talking about immigration has spoken about not all cultures being equal. By that she meant that we have to be careful about who we let into the country and to make sure they respect Western values.

We take in a lot of immigrants from India for example, which has one of the highest rates of child marriage in the world and some of the highest rates of sexual assault.

Is she suggesting that we stop accepting people from India and similar countries or is she suggesting that they are indoctrinated into Western values?

We bring in a lot of immigrants to do essential jobs such as work in the NHS, so how does that work exactly? Are they going to be sent to a Western values bootcamp?

Is this just dog whistle politics? She knows this is a hot topic at the moment and that there is a lot of tension around certain cultures in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/29/kemi-badenoch-not-all-cultures-equally-valid-immigration

I suppose there’s a big difference between what I see as “culture”: language, food, art etc etc which should rightly be preserved and valued and someone saying that misogyny or denial of basic human rights to certain categories of people is “culture”
it’s just the patriarchy in its usual disguise.

She's also suggested we take too many people who 'hate Israel'. When asked if she meant Muslims she of course denied it.

Personally I thin there are a lot of reasons to hate Israel's governments and not just the current one or stuff since last October.

I don’t mind politicians who actually voice their opinions. I would much rather have a debate on those opinions and thrash them out than I would listen to Keir Starmer fall over what a woman is.

She says:

“It is not about labelling cultures. Culture includes a lot of things. I am not talking about cuisine, I am talking about customs.

“I think that cultures where women are told that they should not work, I would knock on doors … and you would see somebody at the door who says: ‘I can’t speak to you, I will get my husband.’ I don’t think that is as equally valid as our culture."

So she not talking about language, food or art, she's talking about women's rights and other similar beliefs that don't tally with British culture.

The only particular culture she talks about is Muslim which is why I view it as dog whistle politics. We take in a huge amount of people from India and Nigeria who don't have a similar outlook to us, neither are progressive when it comes to women's rights, yet she doesn't mention them. Nor does she give any workable solutions as to how conflicting customs are dealt with once here.

Did she use the word equal?

That word is certainly a dog whistle.
However I’m a UK immigrant in another EU country and have attended integration courses along with 50 other immigrants at my child’s school. All others were from Middle East. There actually ended up being arguments about girls’ rights to further education and rights to work outside the home after school.
It was a fascinating look at an integration meeting from an immigrant perspective where I have “western culture” and others very much don’t. If you are living in a western country it is vital, not only for integration purposes but also for respecting the local population, that one takes on board the cultural precepts of the environment you live in. There is a lot I don’t understand about my adoptive country but I pay lots of taxes and attend all the courses and try my best. It’s my job!

She has a lot of praise for Israel and seemingly can't understand why some people might oppose its behaviour.

She's potty. In the same breath she's complaining about cultures in which women don't work outside the home, and then saying maternity pay is excessive, and that women had more babies before maternity pay was introduced... Well, yes, because they didn't work and were supported by their husbands! It's a fascinating example of cognitive dissonance.

Honestly, none of them are likeable but this one has a screw loose.

Presumably some of the people who leave India are doing it partly to get away from child marriage and sexual assault?
it’s important that we preserve a British culture that is in essence a melting pot of many, many cultures that have contributed over millennia and that’s a great thing. What’s come out of it is laws and systems, like equal rights, anti-discrimination, freedom of speech that we want to build on for the benefit of all citizens. It will continue to evolve and we need to make sure that evolution is as beneficial for all as possible. It’s not easy.

She means don't let the Muslims in. It's a dog whistle.

Tbh in the scale of British prejudice against immigrants, I think her own Nigerian roots are probably viewed in a worse light than Indian, Pakistani etc. Not saying that's right, but probably true.

Yes it's just more dog whistle politics I'm afraid.

She’s saying some cultures clash with some of ours, which is beyond obvious. The uk law is the endpoint though, as, for instance, it’s illegal to sell your kids here.

I suppose it depends if you value the freedom to protect people who do things most of us think are serious moral no-nos over the freedom to have any sort of freedom. Patriarchy pops up wearing many masks.

She's not talking about asylum seekers, she's talking about people we let in to work. I think the majority of immigrants to the UK are from India (not absolutely certain).

She's saying that we have to be careful who we bring in because they have very different values to the West. So does that mean that we should no longer accept people from India or does that mean they'll have to attend integration classes when they get here?

She has also just said that stat mat pay is too high.

Dog whistle politics. Her husband was an investment banker. She has no idea what it is like to exist on stat mat pay. Trump level tactics and cognitive dissonance.

Sounds like she has a point. Some cultures have little respect for women. Are surprised when they are arrested for sexual assault. 'Oh it is accepted in our country'.

Think what you want, the reality is, many people agree with her.
Instead of asking what has happened to make many arrive at such a conclusion and how we create a tolerant future for the UK, you roll out:

Dog whistle politics ✔️
Insulting remarks ✔️
Pat each other on the back ✔️
Feel morally superior about yourselves ✔️
Stick head back in sand ✔️

Rinse, repeat for the next immigration thread.

Lol. India also has the world's highest number of women in STEM education. Huge numbers of highly qualified English speaking engineers, doctors and nurses.
Many or most of those coming here on a work visa will be highly educated and not rapists or keen on child marriage.
The president of India is a woman.

Notions on here are really outdated and simplistic

Ironic that Kemi Badenoch was quite happy to serve in a government under a Prime Minister who did not embody values such as acknowledging all your children, and treating women with respect in your personal life. A man being OK with older people dying prematurely ('let the bodies pile high'), and industrial scale lying. None of which are values of this country as far as I know.

Also that the country of her heritage and childhood residence is reputedly one where many scams originate from.

I think we can agree that the 'culture' currently being imposed by the Taliban is not something the UK would benefit from so granting leave to remain to a known Taliban member would be undesirable as far as I'm concerned. The same for Boko Haram and ISIL/ ISIS.

Equally there are an assortment of Russians and Chinese who would not be welcome but that refers to political groups rather than cultures.

Yes, I think you are right. I do think languages, art, dance, music and so on is equally valid.

But when I saw the thread title, my head went straight to not allowing girls to go to school after primary and 'home educating' them and thinking this just isn't equally valid to me. But maybe that isn't culture.

I don't think people realise how difficult it is to enter the UK on a work visa. particularly if you are from certain countries. You can only do it if you are providing a service a British person cannot provide ie with special skills. Many Indians who do so are not doing it to get away from child marriage and sexual assault- what a white saviour view- they are doing it because they are global talent going where the jobs are. Not every Indian woman is married off at 12 and raped by every man in sight.

Might as well say that Americans who enter the UK are doing it to get away from guns.

India is dire regarding the treatment of women and girls as I'm sure you know. In the 2024 gender gap index, India was rated at 129 out of 146 countries.

The question is that of not being equally valid in a western democracy, in the same way that British culture and values will not be seen as equal in other cultures.

I am Indian and spend a lot of time in India. My point is that immigrants who come to the UK for work are self-selecting. They are not the same as a rural woman in Rajasthan.

Most of the selective grammar and private schools in the UK are overwhelmingly Indian. Are we really claiming their parents don't value girls' education?

Or taking boys out of mainstream education aged 12 and putting them into unlicensed religious establishments.