Not all cultures equally valid, says Kemi Badenoch

[candlewhickgreen]

Badenoch when talking about immigration has spoken about not all cultures being equal. By that she meant that we have to be careful about who we let into the country and to make sure they respect Western values.

We take in a lot of immigrants from India for example, which has one of the highest rates of child marriage in the world and some of the highest rates of sexual assault.

Is she suggesting that we stop accepting people from India and similar countries or is she suggesting that they are indoctrinated into Western values?

We bring in a lot of immigrants to do essential jobs such as work in the NHS, so how does that work exactly? Are they going to be sent to a Western values bootcamp?

Is this just dog whistle politics? She knows this is a hot topic at the moment and that there is a lot of tension around certain cultures in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/29/kemi-badenoch-not-all-cultures-equally-valid-immigration

Its really astonishing to me that there are two threads here at the moment:
This one claiming Indians are not progressive and force their children into marriages at 12
Another one about how Indians are obsessed with education and push their children into high earning professions.
Which is it?

Or are you saying that India is a huge and diverse sub-continent with varied levels of progressiveness and education? In which case I agree.

You could say that any country is diverse with various levels of progressiveness and education. However India scores very low on women's rights. The point being made was that the UK should be careful about immigrants coming into the country that don't have Western values and she cited women's rights.

I'm not sure why you're denying India's reputation regarding women as it's very well documented.

I haven't denied India's reputation anywhere ( Though I doubt you have ever visited). I don't believe you can only allow immigrants from progressive countries because Scandinavians aren't exactly gagging to come here and prop up the NHS. My own father came to the UK in the 70s because he was invited to do exactly that.

Your thread is a fabulous example of dogwhistling disguised as faux concern.

There are many countries doing awful things but it is interesting that you choose to only object about the only Jewish country in the world.
The normalisation of racism and anti Semitism since Israel was attacked on October 7 is truly horrifying.

It was Ms Badenoch who introduced Israel into this and not me.

IMHO the way in which the government of Israel was acting both before and since last October is abhorrent.

I'm not singling the country out; there are any number of governments doing abhorrent stuff.

The practice of trying to label its critics as Antisemitic is one of Israel's abhorrent practices albeit at the milder end.

Is it really controversial to suggest that the cultures of countries such as North Korea, Uganda, Iran and Afghanistan etc under their current leadership are not equal to that of western democracies?

She's a fruit loop.

No. Thats not my objection. I object to Kemi saying no immigrants from Iran, N Korea or Uganda should be let in. That's what she is saying, if you read the article.

You're not following what I'm saying so have jumped to the wrong conclusions and are making assumptions.

Badenoch is talking about being careful about letting in immigrants from countries that have cultures that don't have Western values. She gave Islam as an example.

My argument is that she's stirring up culture wars and playing at dog whistle politics. We let in many people from countries that don't have Western values including India and Nigeria, yet she's not talking about limiting them, she's focusing on Muslims.

She's not planning on doing anything about bringing down immigration or vetting people's values or encouraging integration - she's trying to appeal to racists and people who don't like Islam. She's attempting to bring Reform voters back into the fold.

Apparently by pointing that out, I'm playing at dog whistle politics...

It's politics.
She needs the paint the picture that a certain religion is bad for not integrating and that what is going on in the middle east is justified.
She forgets that all religions exist in these cultures. It sickens me that the priest in Gaza said that Christmas was cancelled and all the Christians dying. I am not saying Muslims are any less than Christians but my point is that, the fact that we have brainwashed to believe only one type of religion is to blame for all the atrocities. Noone is sharing the amount of Christian palestians and Christian Lebanese being killed right now.
Why is that?
Simple. Because we can relate to a Christian and will feel empathy and remorse for them. Over the years, we have lost empathy for the middle eastern Muslims painting a certain picture of them.

@lentilweaver I listened in full to the original interview. This is not what she's saying, she's saying that we should ensure immigrants coming into Britain do not bring their culture with them in terms of oppression of gays and women etc.

How would we ensure that?

The fact that women have rights and should be treated as equals isn't dog whistle politics, it is basic uk law. In fact, anyone claiming "culture" is a reason to discriminate against women is a straight forward misogynist.

Yes. And you would stop it, how? What are Kemi's solutions for ensuring that women have equal rights?

I think she's right, to a certain extent. If you move to another country you have to be willing to respect their culture and customs, at least in public life. And there are many practices in other countries which are just not acceptable here or in other western countries. It's fine to say, "Come here, but don't bring certain aspects of your culture here, and if you do certain things which are normal in your culture but illegal here, we will deport you."

Kemi isn't in the government anymore.

@Lentilweaver maybe abandoning the pretence that believing that women and gay people shouldn't have equal rights is a valid "cultural" opinion might be a start?

But who is arguing that it is a valid cultural opinion? There are laws to deal with that, no? Enforce them.

I note Kemi has also said today that maternity pay is excessive. Not very progressive of someone who thinks no one is as progressive as her.

Here's a great leadership sound bite from Badenoch today:

"Speaking to Times Radio, Badenoch said statutory maternity pay, set up to support mothers for 39 weeks after having a baby, is a "function of tax", calling it "excessive".

The shadow business secretary did not say what she thought the right level of maternity pay should be, but said the government should be reducing regulatory burdens."

Then she banged on about personal responsibility 🤣

Isn't she hideous?!

Maternity pay has gone too far, says Kemi Badenoch www.bbc.com/news/articles/c781m9v4255o

Surely that's stating the obvious, women should have equal rights but that's not what she's saying.

She'll say whatever appeals to the populist base, on different days of the week. She's self serving and inconsistent. And a terrible taker of government funds for personal use, if can get away with it.

www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/31/kemi-badenoch-asked-to-use-taxpayers-money-to-pay-for-holiday-flight-sources-claim

She's one of the worst human beings in UK politics. Gives Liz Truss a run for her money in terms of stupidity and rivals Nigel Farage for bigotry.

Well I am not a Badenoch fan but the point she makes about what she’s seen when out door knocking, that’s valid. I work in the inner city in a Muslim area and I see this a lot. I saw it in the last election where whole families were voting the way the male head of the family told them to. Of course this is not in the majority of households but it is true of many. However, you’re talking about families who are already here, sometimes for years, sometimes even second generation with these attitudes. So it isn’t addressed by just stopping immigration. Same with the so called ‘hate marches’. 99% of those marchers hadn’t just arrived, they were British citizens.

Well I've got very different values to her. As a second generation immigrant myself, I cannot understand how she can come from that position and be such a racist? I guess being a Tory probably helps. If anything she seems too right wing to even be a Tory. I honestly wonder what happened in her past to make her act and claim to think in this way.

We bring in a lot of immigrants to do essential jobs such as work in the NHS, so how does that work exactly? Are they going to be sent to a Western values bootcamp?

They literally do have to pass exams demonstrating that they can work to UK medical consultation standards before they are licensed, yes. Rightly so, given that in many countries (including developed countries such as Japan) patients are seen as “getting above themselves” if they want to know what is wrong with them or have input into their own treatment. That does not fly here.

I’ve worked internationally, and I now have a sideline in examining overseas candidates for a different UK medical exam. You have to adapt to the norms of the country you are working in, not the country you trained in.