Labour

[EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime]

No questions the Tories were bad, but Labour are on another level.

Are you still happy you voted them in? Be honest now, you are having your doubts aren’t you?

If not, you really should be.

Which is fair enough but to be entirely fair a new government needs to be given time and the circumstances it inherited need to be taken into account before judgement is made.

@TTSSRPBT

"School fees do not need to be paid from taxable income. Also not everyone is an employee. Fees could be paid from a windfall, an inheritance, a capital gain, savings."

The majority pay school fees out of taxable income.

However I accept that a minority pay school fees from savings (if the source is saved income then this would have been taxed as would the interest), an inheritance (which if above the threshold would have been taxed), capital gains (which would have been taxed) or lastly a windfall which depending on how it was obtained may or may not have been taxed (for example lottery wins are tax free but there's not many of them).

By all means suggest that inheritance and capital gains be taxed at the level of income tax. But in the vast majority of cases the money used to pay school fees will have been taxed in some form and at some level

Err what "pro labour" threads?

From what i ve seen both on Lab MP fb pages and on MN, Labour are getting roasted for WFA and Prisoner release.

On the WFA, rightly so, utterly crazy that they did this so early on/al all, now UNITE has launched into the argument, calling the plan "Cruel" i'd add to that, stupid.

Prisoner release is just the same old blaming Labour for a situation created by the Tories.

So far.... WFA, No more money for the NHS & zilch on Dentistry, which as its part of the NHS, also means No More Money for too, a Tory Renters Bill & nonsense about sewage in rivers eg the Consumer will pay - which was the Tory plan too.
Oh and will close down the UK steel industry, making it a recycling one, same as the Tories, just an improvement on redundancy terms.

So on policy, they are on side with everything the Tories have been doing for the last 14 years.

I don't expect miracles, let alone show real signs of change BUT i would like a road map of intention, they've been in for approx 70 days, what happened to the "First 100 days" BS ?

Corruption aside, may as well have Sunak and Hunt back in.

What first 100 days bullshit? There wasn’t any. As to the rest of that post - what do you expect on dentistry in seven weeks? What part of we’re broke don’t you understand?

To be frank, the Labour Party have had 14 years in opposition to make a fucking plan. There is enough publicly available information regarding the state of the economy and country and the effects of 14 years of Tory rule to do this.

I'm astonished by the fact that all we've had is 'it's worse than feared' the shafting of some pensioners on the WFA and the mid school year introduction of the sketchy VAT on private school fees. Oh and a big fat payday for the train drivers (again).

It still feels like we're on the same rudderless ship as previously but with an element of 'at least with the Tories it was better the devil you know' - at the moment I've absolutely no idea what the next 4+ years will bring.

You've an uncanny knack of making Labour/anti Tory supporters want to vote Tory!!!

Did you even read the bit where i said "I don't expect miracles, let alone show real signs of change BUT i would like a road map of intention"

So far Starmer and Wes Streeting have said there is no more money for the NHS until it reforms, pity that little gem wasn't mentioned BEFORE the GE.

So we don't need time, the road map is clear, there will be no money for more staff, buildings mtce or equipment UNTIL the NHS has reformed.... well good luck with that!!

The NHS cannot be shut down whilst they put in a new IT system and then spend 6 months ironing out bugs, any IT solution will need to run along the existing systems, to prove itself first and that is extremely expensive, i get the impression Labour haven't thought much of this through or spoken to people who do now how to implement IT solutions.

If Labour don't invest in the public sector, building projects etc there will no growth, the waiting list will keep getting longer and millions of people will still be off work due to sickness.

This and they are relying on economic growth. So we'll see how various tax changes and policies go

@TTSSRPBT

"A bad labour government is like a proper bear market - until people have lived through one, they have no idea."

There are those on the left that simply want to punish the "rich" rather than improve the lot of the poor.

The problem I see with Labour policies to date is that they don't think through the consequences as you highlighted on capital flight and trusts.

For example if you increase taxes on those in employment then sure the very wealthy will look to move abroad. But you need to be an exceptionally high earner to make this worthwhile so although they are few in number it's worth remembering that the 0.1% of highest income earners pay 25% of all income tax receipts and the top 1% pay 30% of income tax receipts.

But more numerous will be the high (but not ultra high) income earners that say if I am getting taxed at say 60% in the pound then screw it I'll just work four days a week and come in under the 45% tax or I'll retire early.

The problem with this is that these people are not going to be replaced for the missing one day a week or the 55 year old that retires early has masses of knowledge and good relationships within the company. So all that will happens is productivity goes down.

Which bad Labour government have you lived through?

@soccermum41 I read Labours manifesto and they certainly appeared to have a plan, however, once in, its all been kicked into the long grass.

E.g, they said 1m extra dental appointments but we are told there is no money for the NHS, so even thats gone, guess its back to schools teaching oral hygiene.
Then there is all the capital projected scrapped, never mentioned that little nugget did they.

They knew that Hunts NI cuts would mean at least an 11 billion Black hole, so the "things are worse than we ever imagined" is BS, as the remainder is Pay Review stuff, which again, everyone knew was coming down the track.

the train drivers pay rise is 2.8% over 5 years, so not really the biggie some suggest.

The 55 year old that retires early has masses of knowledge and good relationships within the company. So all that will happens is productivity goes down

That is very true. Older workers are not valued. The Tories got rid of hundreds, maybe thousands, of older, experienced Whitehall civil servants and I think that had a detrimental effect.

I suspect that reform of the NHS has much wider scope than introducing a new IT system. The government has brought in two of the architects of the previous improvements in health, their contribution is based on knowledge and experience - they’ve done it before. Once again, there is no money to invest.

And please don’t pretend to be a Labour voter, it’s just not credible.

Reading today, that the UK is now seen as an excellent place for capital, as we are now at the top of the class for political stability.

Of course they wont go after Trusts, that would mean going after themselves, which they'll never do.

The UKs worst recessions, in recent years, have all occurred under a Tory Govt, often self inflicted.

Well, i did, i hate the tories with a passion, they cause financial inequality, gave us Brexit and have destroyed public services, also doubled nat debt, for zero gain. I arranged a proxy to vote Lab, as i was away.

My preference however is Corbyn over Starmer but as he has gone, its LD or Green, however, i voted to get rid of our Tory MP and Lab it had to be.
BUT i expect more from Labour, even a Torylite version.

Osbourne, who knows Reeves well, said she is mini me!!

Being critical of what they done so far doesn't mean i'm a tory, thats just bone idle thinking.

Is UNITE now a Tory backing union because they disagree with Labour on so many things???

Blair made the NHS better by spending money, he also didn't cut capital projects, he gave us v good growth.

Starmer has very much honed in on reform & yes he agrees with you there is no more money but thats not what Lord Darcy says is required.

So the NHS will not improve.

Blair made the NHS better by spending money

Not for the first two years of his first parliament, he stuck to Tory spending plans. Lord Darzi has been crystal clear about reform, not money just as he was 20 odd years ago.

@TTSSRPBT in case you missed my question, which "bad" Labour government did you live though, please?