When will things get better under Labour?

[Tregaronableist]

I remember reading a thread asking this, just after the election results. My thoughts at the time were that things wouldn’t change much. I’ve seen governments come and go and nothing much changes. We are the same people, the same country, the same industries and we have the same amount of money.

It’s depressing to see what is going on currently. Is it because we now have a left wing government? If the riots were happening under the Tories would the agitators be labelled as far left?

This makes me so angry and upset. How can this be allowed to happen? How is this fair? Politicians are the most corrupt, heartless humans! Men and women! No morals, no empathy, not a care in the world except to gain more power, more money, more control and more friends in high places who're equally as corrupt.

People never fail to fall for pre-election promises every time. It's almost as if the policiticians have them where they want them.

So how far apart do they need to be announced so people don't fall for the gaslighting shite?

All I know is that Labour have abolished my WFP. And that's before whatever else is coming in the Budget.
Telling us that he is not going to raise taxes on "working people" is code for "we're going to take money off pensioners".

No it isn’t. Our WFA has gone just like yours. It’s a shame that the food bank will now miss out but hopefully in time this government will reduce reliance on foodbanks. Pensioners have been featherbedded for the last 14 years and it’s only right that we should share the pain as the biggest beneficiaries of the cause of it. Our income tax won’t go up or the VAT we pay.

When Labour came in in 97 all they did that year was start uni fees!

It took until 1999 when they started working families tax credit that things improved.

The first thing they did - almost immediately - was cut single parents’ benefits. Nobody remembers that now. Tuition fees were introduced in 1998 and they were means tested.

Pensioners have been featherbedded for the last 14 years and it’s only right that we should share the pain as the biggest beneficiaries of the cause of it.
I wasn't a beneficiary, I've only just got to retirement age. But if you are that old then you will remember "the good old days" when pensioners used to freeze to death because they couldn't afford food and warmth. Is that what Labour want to return to?
If Labour attack those who have made provision for their old age then people will start to think "why bother? I might as well spend it now and live off benefits when I retire". How will Starmer get growth in the economy if people are wasting money rather than saving (which is then loaned to fuel investment)?
It is short-sighted to have policies that punish the general populace for having prudent behaviour. But Labour do like to have people being dependent on the public purse.

Our income tax won’t go up or the VAT we pay.
Do you not understand that Starmer speaks with a forked tongue? He will not increase the %age of tax but he will increase the scope. He's already done it: he hasn't raised VAT - it's still 20% - but he wants to expand it to private education. Everyone cheers because it's The Other that is being taxed but wait until he comes after their money and they will soon change their tune.
There are loads of ways he will tax you more without raising the rate of tax.

And fed up white collar workers too!

Two cheeks of the same arse! Never a truer word spoken!

How can the scope of income tax be increased? I’m old and I don’t remember pensioners starving or freezing to death.

Never a more tired ridiculous old cliche.

I definitely remember pensioners in the 60s living in horrific conditions in London at least.

The trouble with elections is that the government always gets in!

It took until 1999 when they started working families tax credit that things improved.
That was an absolute disaster. When employers realised that the Government would step in with benefits - and employers had this fact shoved in their faces because they had to administer it through the payroll system - then they immediately resorted to paying the least that they could get away with, knowing that the Govt would pay top-ups.
As an accountant, I was used to lectures and seminars on how to reduce taxes on the higher paid. I knew something was seriously wrong when we started to get seminars on how to maximise benefits for them!

This was the start of the low wage economy, not helped by Blair allowing in cheap workers from the EU. Labour started the rich/poor divide we have had for the last quarter of a century.

It’s both.

the last government allowed a culture to build where racism was allowed, in fact positively encouraged. It’s hardly a surprise that after years of the constant drip drip of “your problems are the fault of immigrants” that the thicker end of the general public absorb that, and take action.

not thought through action. Not action with an aim. Just action where the demonised group can be attacked or even killed.

it’s entirely the fault of the last government for stoking these fires

@BIossomtoes

Our income tax won’t go up or the VAT we pay.

Don't be too sure.

Not raising the rate of VAT doesn't mean they won't extend VAT to other items, currently zero or exempt rated. It doesn't mean they won't bring more small businesses into having to register for VAT meaning VAT has to be added to your window cleaner's costs, or your cake from a small independent baker's shop, or your handyman cleaning your gutters or your gardener!

Same with income tax. The rate may not increase, but the personal allowances could be reduced.

There are ways and means to stick with the words they've used but still increase taxes.

And anyway, Keir is setting out the stall, so they may even backtrack on what they said and raise income tax and VAT rates anyway, citing "special circumstances" of the alleged black hole they failed to spot!

Yep, I could have written the same post word for word. I remember those lectures and seminars and remember thinking "what the f*!" at the time.

Likewise when tax credits were announced by Gordon Brown. Our entire office was watching the live budget on TVs in our office and there was a collective intake of breath of the shock of it. We realised immediately that it would mean workers reducing their hours to the minimum threshold, and people starting "fake" small businesses to claim they were working to get tax credits.

And it all happened. We had a couple of years of loads of new clients setting up market stalls selling cheap sweets bought in bulk from wholesalers, window cleaning rounds, cleaning, car washes, gardeners, etc., all "breaking even", so just doing enough paid work to cover their costs, but also claiming they were "working" the requisite number of hours to get tax credits by claiming they were spending time on administration, training, book-keeping, research, marketing, etc.

We went on courses at that time explaining the rules about the "flex" in income from one year to another and how to tell genuine business clients to keep their income within certain boundaries the year after the initial claim to keep their full tax credit award despite earning a lot more in the second year. There was a whole industry aimed at maximising tax credit claims!

What has the food bank to do with it or is it just a chance to spout how virtuous you are.

Two cheeks of the same arse. So no, things won’t get better.

Can’t stand any of them. They’re all in it for themselves.

Just a humble brag about how they don't need the WFA - no wonder they don't give a shit about it being axed.

Doesn’t mean it isn’t true though.

Need and want are different things. The vast majority of pensioners don’t need it. 62% of us are taxpayers.

Maybe give them more than five minutes to sort through the mess from the previous government?

But that statistic will include people who pay tiny amounts of income tax, even as low as just a few pounds per year. So it's a good sound bite, but in reality, most pay very little, and certainly most pay far less than their benefits they receive, i.e. state pension, free bus passes, free prescriptions, etc.