Spectator - The Torment of British Jews. This article almost brought me to tears.

[stelladelmare8]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-torment-of-british-jews/ Apologies for the pay wall, but if you did want to read it you can get a free trial.

This article broke my heart. Sharing in the hopes of raising some awareness around what British Jews are facing right now in our own country.

? Sorry which of many colonial powers that the region has seen is “the coloniser” in your post? Yes we were persecuted over and over, but no matter who was in charge, either the Muslim Arabs or the Christian Arabs or both were being persecuted with us.

How could an Ottoman Mufti who bought arms from the Nazis be an Arab Palestinian or a ‘Palestinian Patriot”?

He was an Ottoman, a Turk. Ottoman Turks are neither Arab nor Palestinian. They hated the Arabs as much as the Jews.

Yes, because the Palestinians were being oppressed by Israel long before October 7th 2023. There was plenty to march about well before the atrocities that are happening now.

"Muhammad Amin al-Husayni (189?-1974) was the Mufti (chief Muslim Islamic legal religious authority) of Jerusalem under the political authority of the British Mandate in Palestine from 1921 to 1937. His primary political causes were:

1. establishment of a pan-Arab federation or state
2. opposition to further immigration of Jews to Palestine and Jewish national aspirations in Palestine
3. promotion of himself as a pan-Arab and Muslim religious leader"

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/hajj-amin-al-husayni-the-mufti-of-jerusalem

"Amin al-Husseini (born 1897, Jerusalem, Palestine, Ottoman Empire—died July 4, 1974, Beirut, Lebanon) grand mufti of Jerusalem and Arab nationalist figure who played a major role in Arab resistance to Zionist political ambitions in Palestine.
Husseini studied in Jerusalem, Cairo, and Istanbul, and in 1910 he was commissioned in the Ottoman artillery. In December 1921 the British, who had accepted a mandate for Palestine after World War I (1914–18), named Husseini grand mufti of Jerusalem and president of the newly created Supreme Muslim Council—the most authoritative religious body in the Palestinian Muslim community."

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Amin-al-Husayni

@KestrelMoon The Brittanica disagrees with you

Except the UK government is supporting and paying towards it, so it's not completely different. The UK has been shipping arms to Yemen and training fighters out there.

I think, as a Jewish person, people have generally been good at refuting genuine antisemitism, and most people have been very good at not conflating Jews in general with the Israeli government.

The rise in antisemitism is deeply unpleasant, but to me it feels like it's being conflated inaccurately with the Third Reich or something when clearly there is no threat of us being systematically oppressed by the government or indeed any political force that has a chance of being in government for the foreseeable future.

I personally oppose the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinian people and particularly deplore the outright cruelty they are displaying through, for example the witholding of aid. I cannot possibly see any need for that other than cruelty and some twisted sense of payback (yes, I know it's a conflict, but this sort of action is specifically proscribed as a war crime), nor does anything Israel's forces are doing seem to be aiding in the return of hostages. They've brought back a handful, they've killed three - the only time numbers have been released is during a ceasefire brokered by a third party. Which tells you something. This is why I marched on Saturday with the Palestine demo Jewish bloc.

But at the same time I am not saying I'm The Right Kind of Jew and pro-Israel Jews are The Wrong Kind - although I don't feel quite the same way about Israel I understand many Jews feel they have to stand with Israel, because if they don't, who will? And they feel very strongly it's their only refuge if The Worst Happens -personally I have always felt the UK is safer for me in my family, but that's not the case for everyone as people need to understand that even though we 'seem to be doing alright' these days, we do have millennia of exclusion behind us, and that's a powerful anxiety.

@Markinatree which views expressed openly? That Israel has gone far too far now? The kidnappings by Hamas were absolutely horrendous. But I also can’t justify retaliation that involves humanitarian disaster for those children trapped in Gaza. Am I particularly appalled that a Jewish nation that has suffered so much inhumane cruelty in recent past could bring about this type of crisis? I guess I do find it particularly hard to stomach because of that if I’m honest.

Does that make me an anti-Semite? Do I blame a Jewish person living in the uk for that situation? Of course not.

Will I be called anti-Semitic for holding those views? I think that I might be by some people judging by what I’ve seen on Socials. And I don’t think that is fair, or helpful to the argument (which I can see even if I disagree with it) that Israel has no choice but to destroy Hamas at any cost.

@Echobelly what do you think of the anti semitism on this thread?

I have gone a bit beyond the encyclopaedia entry in my historical research.

I agree with Ilan Pappe who is an expert historian on the family who were Ottoman officials for generations both in Istanbul and in Jerusalem.
https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/78087

@Echobelly

I feel just like you do.

I don’t know a single Jewish person who thinks it’s the equivalent of the Third Reich. What Jewish people know is that antisemitism takes many forms. The Holocaust did not set a bar that says anything below it doesn’t need to be taken seriously. Jews having to avoid antisemitic rabbles in city centres every Shabbat is already intolerable. Antisemitic placards and the blood libel are already intolerable. Jewish businesses or businesses even loosely associated with Jews being targeted is already intolerable.

If the government and institutions like the Metropolitan Police are passive while Jews are bullied, alienated, and attacked, why does it matter that they’re not personally joining in.

@Thunderbird7

I feel similar to echobelly including the conflation to the Third Reich. I can’t speak for them, but for me the comparisons made by some have made me uncomfortable and feel like that conflation has and is happening.

• The Israeli envoy to the UN, Gilad Erdan, wore a yellow star on his blazer for weeks as did his staff in protest of UN members criticising Israel’s heavy handed retaliation.

• Jerusalem deputy mayor Arieh King called Hamas “Muslim Nazis”

• Pro-Israeli marches feature many signs saying “Never Again is Now” a clear reminder of the Shoah (Holocaust) for those of us who are Jewish.

• Nir Barkat, Israeli Minister of Economy and Industry, said that what Hamas did was “worse than what the Nazis did.”

• Bibi Nethanyu, Israeli PM. called Hamas “the new Nazis.”

• The Jewish Press published in December 2023 an article titled “The Nazi Roots of Hamas”

edited to correct autocorrect mangling of a name

Sorry if I'm wrong, the argument I have heard from every settler has been that God gave Jews the land of Israel therefore it's their right to inhabit it above all others.

Well this thread is going much the way of many others. @stelladelmare8
Some of these responses seem quite 'targeted'.
Disappointing is an understatement.
Less focus on the article.

Regardless of anything else British Jews in Britain should not be scared simply because they are Jewish. Any more than British Muslims should be fearful simply because they are Muslim.

Tbh I do think anti-semitism is seen as just not as bad as any other isms. Theres an undertone of “punching up”.

There are obviously many different views on why Israel should exist (itself a pointless discussion as it does exist). But only a minority fringe centre the religious one.

You're wrong. There were spontaneous demonstrations of support for hamas' actions as early as the Monday and Tuesday. It's not something you forget easily.

Who do you mean by “settlers”?

And the only people making “Promised Land” arguments are antisemites strawmanning what Jews actually think.

Netanyahu and the IDF should be declared terrorists too.

Even after downgrading and shifting the goal post from the Spectator description of “pro-Palestinian marches” to your “spontaneous demonstrations of support for Hamas” (not pro-Palestinian protesters and not marches)

These demos that you remember still happened after Israel began its retaliation on the 7th of October because Monday was the 9th of October 2023.

Don’t see how I am wrong?

Settlers, ie people who are living in illegal settlements. Look up Daniella Weiss. I don't think she'd appreciate being called an antisemite.

What is the connection you are making between British people and a nation state? Sharing a religion does not make you culpable.

I was brought up Christian. Must I therefore be held to account for America's actions?