Best Prime Minister in your opinion.

[Tulipsroses]

I don't know who I dislike more Rushi or Starmer. Both of them don't have the political weight of a British Prime Minister. If Rushi lacks charisma Starmer never had any. They both don't have any new ideas just repeat some old cliches. I sometimes wonder if Argentina would invade Falklands tomorrow would they have the iron lady's balls?
Anyway my question is who do you think is a leader which this nation deserves? It can either Labour or Conservative it need to be a living politician.

@GlobeTrotter2000 I really try to keep my temper even on here, let’s hope I succeed.

1. I don’t know why the terrorists who committed those atrocities did what they did and I suspect it was something like fear for their families or strong religious belief. My point was that that was an action that fear would generally prevent humans from doing and it didn’t. That didn’t make them ideal candidates for political office.
2. I know who the actor was and was referring to the character in the fictional context. It was more likely Costner’s stunt double and besides I’ve done different but similarly quite dangerous stuff on horses. If you put the character in the life he was living, it was basically suicide by cop.
3. Yes, I’ve had a lot of therapy, some time in psychiatric hospitals and having wanted to end your own life in circumstances many others have regarded their lives as unbearable in doesn’t deprive you of the ability to absorb political news or history or to analyse it. I’ll thank you for avoiding the ad hominem in future apart from acknowledging that you’ve basically agreed that not being afraid of anything - because not being afraid of a painful death is basically that - qualified me for mental patient status, not Prime Minister status.

@fixingmylife

Regards water, take a look at:

Water scarcity: MEPs to debate how to ensure every European has access to water | 16-10-2023 | News | European Parliament (europa.eu)

UK weather seldom results in droughts and water shotages. The last I remember was in 1976 when you could be fined 5 pounds for using a hosepipe.

Removal of free school milk commenced in 1968 under a Labour Government.

Also, imagine if you were one of the mining families. Her "Iron fist" shouldn't be applauded. She forced miners to work in dangerous conditions

I am from a mining family. Both my father and his father worked in the North East coal mines.

My grandfather died before I was born. Cause was a throat problem which prevented him from eating well.

After 34 years working in mines, from age 16 to 50, my father was happy to take the redundancy package of 1500 pounds per year of service and 7/8ths pay for rest of his life. He later worked for the NHS.

After the strike was over, even the younger ones were happy as they had a big chunk of money to spend and being young enough to find something else. It happened as his two younger brothers found employment locally not long after the strike.

The strike was a battle of ego's. The NUM had never been defeated before. That the PM was a woman was also an issue.

In the mining villages, the husband was usually the only one that worked. The wife's duty was to run the house and do as they were told. If not, a heavy clout often followed. Reporting to the police on the beat made little, if any, difference as there were men too.

So, the miners fought out of pride, even though they knew the redundancy packages would be good, but never dreamed they would lose.

My father blamed Scargill for making the strike illegal which enabled the government to confiscate NUM funds. As time passed, they went back to work as they had families to feed.

What the NUM and the miners overlooked was Thatcher's preparation methods. Coal was stockpiled. The Army and the Police were bought with good pay rises.

@GlobeTrotter2000 Thatcher abolished free milk for children aged 7-11 in 1971.

Glad to read about the redundancy money.

Good luck with voting for Richard Tice in the next GE.

Margaret Thatcher

@Cnon , did you read the OP? Anyway my question is who do you think is a leader which this nation deserves? It can either Labour or Conservative it need to be a living politician.

John Major 😁

I agree with policies not personallies. I was reminded of it this morning when I read in the Guardian that "Some medicine shortages are so serious that they are imperilling the health and even lives of patients with serious illnesses, pharmacy bosses warned". And it's going worse. We got here because people believed that Boris Johnson was fun or cool or worse. People are actually dying now, the article says. Cheers, Brexit.

That is where personality politics leads.

Invade The Falklands??? I think you’ll find the U.K. are the ones that stole the Islas Malvinas.
I’ll be voting Starmer. Honesty and decency matter more to me than charisma.

Don’t the population of the Falklands get a say?

And Argentina is the product of colonialism, just as much as the British Empire.

All these places are so difficult, Northern Ireland, Crimea, Gaza, Gibraltar and yes the Falklands.

Agreed !! I've had enough self promoting 'personalities' for a lifetime. I want a boring hardworking person who doggedly gets on with the job.

I would have been interested to see a Rory Stewart / Ruth Davidson combo for (a completely new, half decent?) Tory / coalition Party. But the Starmer / Rayner combo cominh this autumn has potential. I hope their first act is to repeal the shameful Rwanda bill.

Agreed !! I've had enough self promoting 'personalities' for a lifetime. I want a boring hardworking person who doggedly gets on with the job.
Me too.

I would have been interested to see a Rory Stewart / Ruth Davidson combo for (a completely new, half decent?) Tory / coalition Party. But the Starmer / Rayner combo cominh this autumn has potential. I hope their first act is to repeal the shameful Rwanda bill.
Half-decent politicians don't appeal to the Tories. They're not right-wing enough.

People always say that, but they don't vote for leaders who lack charisma.

Was Theresa May a worse PM than David Cameron?
Was John Major worse than Margaret Thatcher?
Was Gordon Brown worse than Tony Blair?

The missing element for the first three was charisma. It's not just their relative lack of electoral success, compared to their more charismatic predecessors (clearly there were other factors at work as well) - it's how they are regarded in retrospect - May and Brown as disasters, Major as a bit of a joke when, in reality, all three were at least as competent as the PM they succeeded.

Exactly. After Saint “oh, but he’s so funny!” Boris, I never want a funny prime minister again. Give me boring, any day.

Again, people say that, but history says otherwise. At almost every election in recent history, the more charismatic candidate has won:

Boris beats Corbyn
Cameron beats Milliband
Cameron beats Brown
Blair beats Howard
Blair beats Hague
Blair beats Major
Thatcher beats Kinnock
Thatcher beats Foot
Thatcher beats Callaghan
Wilson beats Heath x3
Wilson beats Douglas-Home

exceptions:
May beats Corbyn
Major beats Kinnock
Heath beats Wilson in 1970

So, 14 out of 17 since 1960 went to the more charismatic candidate.

I agree. She sees being an MP as a duty to do her best for the people, not an opportunity to rake in the cash as a celebrity once done and dusted. As our local MP she has been outstanding. So sad she is retiring. Have you read her book, 'The Abuse of Power'?

"I agree. She sees being an MP as a duty to do her best for the people, not an opportunity to rake in the cash as a celebrity once done and dusted. As our local MP she has been outstanding. "
This.

exceptions:
May beats Corbyn - hung parliament, Corbyn wasn't popular outside his fanbase, Brexit
Major beats Kinnock - ginger-haired, Welshman, seemed a bit too sure of himself
Heath beats Wilson in 1970 - economy

I agree that it's a close run thing between Major and Kinnock on who would have been the more charismatic as PM. Kinnock definitely had more ability to project pure charisma, but Major arguably inspired greater confidence as a leader.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow , there's some prejudice against both ginger hair and being Welsh. There shouldn't be, and it's appalling, but it exists.
NK had way more charisma but JM seemed like a safer pair of hands.

TM had being an older woman going against her, and wasn't right-wing enough.
There should not be prejudice against women or being older, but it exists.

TBH, I think people who disliked Kinnock anyway used his Welshness and ginger hair against him, rather than those things being the root of their dislike. No one used to slate Charles Kennedy for having ginger hair and being Scottish, because he was generally liked.

That's not to say that prejudice against red-haired people and against the Welsh doesn't exist.

Tim Farron (ex LibDem leader). He's an outstanding constituency MP, hard working, with good morals and no whiffs of sleaze nor corruption about him. He's exactly the kind of person we need to be running the country. He's also not a career politician who'll bugger off once he's lined his pockets and got lucrative jobs lined up after he's made enough contacts.

With the charisma of wilted spinach, which is why he had no impact.

I agree he is a good person, but he was not an effective leader. You don't need to be a Lord Flasheart-type like Boris - Angela Merkel was a very different type of leader (thank god) and highly successful - but you need that undefinable something that effective leaders have.

Basically, if you can't imagine the person persuading a roomful of people to do something they don't want to do, that person is not going to succeed as PM.

If I wanted someone to look after my cat, I'd choose Farron, or May, or Sunak, over Johnson, who would probably lose the cat and/or shag it. However, as much as I despise Boris, if my back was against the wall, and I needed someone to persuade my team to go over the top into gunfire, metaphorically or actually (in the WW1 sense), I would choose Boris over Sunak or May, every time.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow , you are probably right.
I think the prejudices go deeper than you suggest though.
Charles Kennedy was definitely likeable.
I liked Neil Kinnock but I can see why not everyone would.

I can't fault Tim Farron but he didn't have the 'personality' that people look for when voting. I admire him for his principles. I don't necessarily agree, but he did well to not bow to pressure.

BJ was not a good leader but he was a good campaigner.

Unfortunately, due to the religious convictions which drive him and I'm sure are at least partially responsible for his integrity, he believes that gay sex is a sin and is prepared to say so.

That's a wacky belief in the modern British context and in the same way that a flat-earther is not suitable for high office, nor is he.