The Westminster Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Shiny new thread 😍😍

The Westminster Arms:
A non-partisan politics pub-thread for varied political chit-chat & other such stuff

Cheers all 🍷

I mean, look at some of the celebs out there with the audacity to froth about thick leavers? Terry Christian anyone? 😂😂😂

Hmmm.

Epic thanks for that pointer to Jeremy Vine's show, not. I lasted all of 60 seconds watching. This programme is fuelling the divide. Guess it gets the viewing figures.

I much prefer him on the radio, but the TV show is putting me off him altogether: a panel made up of shouty people, shouting at shouty phone-in guests. Urgh!

People aren’t thick now, they have just been manipulated apparently . (Same thing basically , dressed up in faux concern for those less capable of understanding than themselves.)

Wow. Who is this horribly arrogant woman on the panel????

If there was ever a measure of intelligence. This programme is not it. 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

It's as bad as the other 'Jeremy' show Epic

“It's as bad as the other 'Jeremy' show Epic”

It’s hilarious. So many cliched points, lacking in any depth, insight or nuance. 🙄

MSM have bent over backwards to find people to interview that fit their leave remain stereotypes too

I agree with this. I remember being on holiday last year in Italy and our accommodation only had BBC World Service so we'd pop it on to catch a bit of news/weather.
I remember a segment on Brexit which had two leavers and one remainer talking to a journalist. The two leavers were ordinary folk who had reasons for voting leave but perhaps didn't articulate them in the most persuasive or confident way. Not because they were bad reasons or illegitimate reasons btw but because they were not polished public speakers who were used to talking about their political opinions.
The Remain voter was a labour activist who of course, read from an activist script confidently and concisely, quoting sources as part of her argument. It felt so unfair to pit people who are not used to speaking publicly against an activist who clearly did this regularly. It just reinforced the stereotype that leavers are all thick and remainers are clever people that know what is best for everyone even those that don't know it for themselves.
What made me most cross, was that this was the impression being beamed around the world by the BBC.

We can't erase the past; we cannot change it either

Sorry but that is a ridiculous statement. As you are apparently immersed in reading history you will know that there is no such thing as objectivity on the subject. People can and have erased uncomfortable truths out of past history and, by those revisions being accepted and handed down, have 'changed' it.

The behaviour of posters on here has been pretty disgusting. I wonder if any of you will reflect on that. I spend time in real life (not that I would expect you to know this) explaining that people who voted Leave are reasonable sensible people who just view things differently and this should be respected. I have colleagues and relatives who voted Leave - I respect but disagrees with them. I live in a Leave area as I regularly state in posts.
The regular lurches on this thread into paranoia that "everyone is out to get you" make for some unpleasant behaviour.
The disingenuous "we didn't start tbe argument/we are all friendly and non-partisan" is less convincing by the day.
You need people like me to help move things forward and to move away from tedious old battles.
To be frank, fuck that. It's a waste of time for a good long time.

It will be his greyness and strict adherence to Corbynism that will. The working class have spoken and its Conservatism that answered.

The working class have 'spoken', some of them went Tory, some of them went Labour. Another time they may well speak differently. And according to all accounts it wasn't Toryism that answered it was Brexit determined the overall result.

If the Brexit party hadn't stood down the result may have been very different so I wouldn't go getting all carried away with the idea that 'the working class' are suddenly in love with tories.

Greyness is an irrelevant description and I'm not seeing any evidence of 'strict adherence' to 'corbynism' tho happy to see any genuine examples?

Yes, ignoring the views of people who disagree with you worked so well for Labour and Remain that you have decided to try it too.

I am so glad the LL gets all the papers delivered each day.
Am enjoying the breakfast, coffee from our shining new machine (with amazing shelving) whilst reading the DT.
Morning Epic.

Epic, what channel is JV on. I will watch it on my son's TV which has catch up.

Morning, again, just to pick up the conversation from Hollycatberry:

MSM have bent over backwards to find people to interview that fit their leave remain stereotypes too

A prime example was the party in Parliament Square when the roving reporter found three ordinary and probably quite decent women definitely not used to speaking to camera and struggling to provide the soundbites she was demanding about what Leave meant to them. Yet - as someone in the crowd pointed out - the reporter overlooked other groups standing within arms' reach who might have been able to. They were young, well-dressed, well spoken, and clearly not what she was looking for.

Did anyone catch the moment when Rishi Sunak stunned the insufferable Kay Burley into momentary silence this morning when she wailed about what fresh hell would await if we couldn't agree a trade deal with the EU?

With his customary patience, he said, "We don't actually need a trade deal with the EU..." and went on to enumerate all the ways we could achieve what we wanted by a myriad of other arrangements - all of which the EU already has with other countries.

Mark my words, that lad will go far.

Singing those poor ladies are now being vilified all over social media #thick.

I'm so glad power is out of the clutches of people who think like that.
There was real talk that levels of intelligence should preclude people from voting.

Real talk? By whom?
Or are you triggered by being asked questions.

Bellini, Sally didn't mean you (if I read that right).

In the period after the referendum, there was a lot of nonsense from people who should know better that referenda should be restricted to people under the age of 70, with a university degree, etc etc.

You must remember that.

It was hyperbolic nonsense - as I think you and I would be first to point out - but it was very hurtful to a lot of people at the time.

I heard a lot of nonsense from a lot of people. I don't give a shit what two pissed up women said in a vox pop on national television. There's plenty of nonsense from official sources to go around.

Copper, seriously, don't waste your time watching it.

I agree with you, Bellini. None of that is representative of the vast majorities of people. Just as that frankly appalling racist and xenophobia notice pinned to a fire door in (I think) a block of flats in Norwich is in any way reflective of how most of us think or feel or behave.

I hope you know of the notice I'm talking about - I haven't got a way of posting it and really wouldn't want to - but apparently the police are on to it. And more power to the police, I say.

Gah. Majority, not majorities.

I thought I'd got this tablet trained!

"but it was very hurtful to a lot of people at the time."
Being the subject of silly little comments about getting the Zoflora out to get rid of me is pretty fucking hurtful. As is the other stuff that you lot pretend never happened.
Maybe you should think about exactly how welcoming you make this pub for people not in your squad.

Bellini, the Zoflora was NOT aimed at you.

I am truly sorry if you thought it was.

It was a poster who deliberately kept trying to provoke. That person appears to have gone.

Don't you have a long history of posting on these threads? And haven't I said in the past that although you and I have different political philosophies, you still make me stop and think? Don't you think that's a good thing?

Is there any reason why we can't continue to do that?