The Westminster Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Shiny new thread 😍😍

The Westminster Arms:
A non-partisan politics pub-thread for varied political chit-chat & other such stuff

Cheers all 🍷

Massively missing the point Walkingdeadfangirl.

Sir Starmer, Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath & Privy Councillor is a fully paid up member of the London liberal elite.

Yes, people know that so it's not as if you're making any big reveal, the point is that in itself won't put anyone off voting for him since they were happy to vote 'Boris' who is not only a fully paid up member of the London elite but a corrupt liar as well.

Problem for Sir Keir is not that he will put off voters but rather that he lacks anything other than static cling to the sameoldsameold with which to attract them.

Standing still is very much not an option for Labour atm.

In contrast, Boris may reek of establishment but that is the point of the Conservatives - clue is in the name. He has an 80 seat majority to vindicate his stance since 2016.

As ever, Labour won't 'win' the next election; the Tories will lose it.

As is so often the way.

Thanks for the article Scary. I read it twice. Very interesting article. Which paper is it from? Couldn't work out what DFt means? 🤔

I think if Sir Static is elected as Labour leader we will certainly have another 10 years of Boris 👏👏👏
That would suit me.

I think Sir S would be ok at the dispatch box...but most people have never heard of PMQs and couldn't care less.
I think he would be toxic to all of the new blue wall.

Boris has charisma and a cheerful, positive personality and put him against Sir S and I know who would win. And Boris has a secret weapon...Classic Dom.

But, that's all well and good but I do hope Labour sort themselves out because we deserve a decent opposition.

I admire Boris' stand with the EU. His ministers will hold the line.
My twitter feed is telling me the senior ministers will be ok in the reshuffle but we can only wait and see.

You're half right, Labour won't win the next election, the Tories will.

But they may have a decent opposition at long last which will make a change after the Corbyn years.

Was there anything in the Queen's Speech about the Fixed Term Parliament Act?

It has to go, but Boris isn't likely to want or need an election any time soon, so I should think it's on his 'When I get around to it' list rather than his 'Urgent' list.

Thanks for the article Scary. I read it twice. Very interesting article. Which paper is it from?

Yes, it certainly is interesting. The author is notoriously 'interesting' -
Andrew Roberts is the author of ‘Leadership in War’ published by Penguin.

From an article in the Independent 2009 -
Roberts, who has a new book out this week, describes himself as "extremely right-wing". To understand him, you need to look at a small, sinister group of British-based South African and Zimbabwean exiles he has associated with. In 2001, Roberts spoke to a dinner of the Springbok Club, a group that regards itself as the shadow white government of South Africa. Its founder, a former member of the neo-fascist National Front, says: "In a nutshell our policy can be summed up in one sentence: we want our countries back, and believe this can now only come about by the re-establishment of civilised European rule throughout the African continent."

How interesting

Some good news for the car industry.
From the FT

in his writings Roberts is even supportive of politicians who take mass punishment to its most extreme conclusion: concentration camps. His political hero is Lord Salisbury, the British prime minister who, during the Boer War, constructed concentration camps in South Africa that inspired Hermann Goering. Under Salisbury, the British burned Boer civilians out of their homes and farms and drove them into concentration camps, so they could grab control of one of the most strategically important parts of Africa. The result was that about 34,000 people – some 15 per cent of the entire Boer population – died in the camps, mainly of disease and starvation.

Roberts presents a very different picture. He says the British introduced "regime change" in Pretoria out of a concern "for human rights". Far from being a "war crime", the concentration camps "were set up for the Boers' protection". The mass deaths there were not a result of British policy. No: they were primarily the prisoners' own fault, because they didn't know how to take medicine or treat disease, and deliberately spread lice.

And interesting news from Guernsey
I am puzzled because they were never in the EU.
It's from Euro News.

Yes that's very interesting Coppersulphate

That's an interesting plan by Nissan copper!

I think as per Andrew Roberts article noted and as most of us who have been battered at times with the general travailles of life, one door closes... Many more open.

Strange copper!

The first skirmish of brexit

I've never been to Guernsey etc. I'd like to 1 day.

Right! I’m off to bed folks, I can’t be arsed to stick around for more goading and derailing tonight 🥱 . See you all in the AM! Remember, MN say just ignore! Good advice in the absence of any specific site feature allowing one to physically do so.

Copper interesting, thats quite a canny plan by Nissan.

Remember, MN say just ignore! Good advice in the absence of any specific site feature allowing one to physically do so

There's a thread in site stuff about a block/hide poster function btw if anyone's interested

Not something I'd really supported before if I'm honest but have changed my opinion on it of late

“There's a thread in site stuff about a block/hide poster function btw if anyone's interested”

Is there??? What an amazing coincidence...
😉😉😂😱

Night all xxx

Copper The Daily Telegraph.The feline overlord was trying to climb me whilst I typed.

Arse I thought it was an interesting article from someone who is rated professionally for their work. My political heroes are Thomas Cromwell, Wellington, Churchill and Baroness Thatcher. I'm not sure I agree with Cromwell sending people to the scaffold, but he was of his time, as was Lord Salisbury. It drives me batshit when people try to impose the mores of today on the past. We can learn from our past and use that to improve the present and future - but how can we say we would have done anything differently had we existed in that time and place, and within that particular social structure?

but he was of his time, as was Lord Salisbury. It drives me batshit when people try to impose the mores of today on the past. We can learn from our past and use that to improve the present and future

According to the article Goering learned from Lord Salisbury so looks like you're right scaryteacher. What lessons would you take from the 'interesting', extreme right-wing Historian?

Ah, the Daily Telegraph, I wondered what Dft stood for as well, all becomes clear!

Dusty, I can't find the "block " button. Please can you tell me exactly hoe to find it?
And a large whisky for a nightcap please.🥃
And good night.

Labour won't win the next election, the Tories will.

5 years is a long time even in 'normal' times and these are very abnormal times politically and socially. 5 years ago we still had a coalition gvt, Cameron was head boy and for all anyone knew we would carry on in the EU til the end of time. Things can change and they can change a lot

I expect the Serbs learned from Goering as well, and the Russians with their internment camps and now the Chinese with the Uiger. I expect that Lord Salisbury learned from all the medieval Jewish ghettos in Europe.

You don't rate Andrew Roberts, that's fine. I find him readable, but then, I rate David Starkey as well. I read for the history, as opposed to their politics.

Please note that I said we can learn from the past, I very carefully avoided saying that we did.

You don't rate Andrew Roberts, that's fine. I find him readable, but then, I rate David Starkey as well. I read for the history, as opposed to their politics.

Those two things can't be separated. But if you are in tune with their politics naturally you will find them readable.

If people are shocked at Nazi concentration camps would you chide them for imposing the mores of today onto the past? WW2 is the past after all.