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Politics

Please can someone explain? Will we pay if we leave EU without a deal?

580 replies

HappydaysArehere · 17/10/2017 19:53

With all this talk of billions of pounds which we are supposed to owe if we leave and talk of continuing to pay after we leave, I am in the dark. If we walk away with no deal will we pay anything like the amounts talked about? If we are able to do that surely the EU will be big losers as well as us! I am at a loss. Grateful for your input as I am bewildered. I voted to remain but must say the shenanigans being played by the EU are showing them as more like the Mafia than a democratic institution.

OP posts:
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M4Dad · 24/10/2017 15:48

Getting back on thread:

The debt Italy owes to the rest of Europe — 25% of its GDP — is so bad that a default would "shatter" the country, cripple Europe with unpaid debts, and wipe 0.4% off global GDP, according to Oxford Economics analyst Taha Saei

www.businessinsider.com/italy-debt-global-gdp-growth-2017-7

Yet we are constantly told by Remainers that the EU is the only true way and if you disagree you must be old and fat.

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 15:49

@Antigonads

Just having some fun now. Sorry if I offended. You are right; I'll behave now.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 15:49

What's your Body Mass Index? Go on mate. Tell us. Do you struggle to see your feet

Olivia,

I think you're upset, go and get some fresh air and come back to the thread a little more clear headed.

Quite why you think I'm fat is beyond me.

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 15:52

@M4dad

What in the world does Italy's external debt have to do with the EU, SM or CU?

Again, since you have not contributed any facts thus far: please enlighten us with your advantaged view of what the SM is and what a CU is and why it's such a bad thing to be a part of them.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 15:54

What in the world does Italy's external debt have to do with the EU

Sorry, I thought I made that quite clear when I quoted this:

The debt Italy owes to the rest of Europe — 25% of its GDP — is so bad that a default would "shatter" the country, cripple Europe with unpaid debts and wipe 0.4% off global GDP, according to Oxford Economics analyst Taha Sae

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 15:57

Clearly I'm going to have watch my back here, accused of sexism when none existed and then an attempt at body shaming.

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 15:58

@M4dad

Define 'rest of Europe'. Funds, banks, governments, individuals? Sure a default on euro-denominated debt by Italy would be painful. But the country can tax its citizens, among the wealthiest in the world.

And I reiterate: What in the world does Italy's external debt have to do with the EU, SM or CU? Explain

You are dodging the question: in your words, what are the SM and CU? How are they different?

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 16:00

@M4dad

Focus. Don't care about any purported sexism or whether you're heavy. Answer 'dem questions.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 16:00

Olvia,

It's obvious to me that you're quite prepared to act blind to the financial state of a lot of countries within the EU as it doesn't suit your agenda.

Personally I see it as a house of cards waiting to fall over and I'd rather not be a part of that thank you very much.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 16:02

Focus. Don't care about any purported sexism or whether you're heavy. Answer 'dem questions.

I won't now I've reported them.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/10/2017 16:02

Its ok to say if you dont know the answer m4

Vitalogy · 24/10/2017 16:03

Jeez there's some nasty comments on here, you're just showing yourself up. Once you start name calling you've lost it.

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 16:08

Ladies

I'm 'affeared' we've reached the end of the road with @M4dad. He can't explain the relevance of Italy's external debt and why it relates to the SM or CU.

Nor has he answered a basic question about what the SM and CU are and why the UK really wants to maintain its access to the SM and membership of the CU.

His gratuitous assertion - as is the case with most Brexidiots - is that he'd just rather not be a part of it but just can't articulate why it's a good or bad thing.

I will argue til I'm blue in the face to any Remainer that the EU needs a good ass-whooping restructuring. But also that frictionless - ie no Non-Tariff Barrier - access to the largest market in the world for goods AND services is a positive thing, even given the EU's shortcomings. Moreover that the CU is a good thing given the EU's massive heft in negotiating strong trade deals with 50+ countries including the US and China. Just wait until the US' trade negotiators get a hand on Liam Fox and his lot. Trump is NOT OUR FRIEND.

I blame UK, FR, DE, NL politicians for letting the EU get to what it is. But with Macron and Merkel it is a beast that can be managed back down to size. Leaving the EU is just about the dumbest thing the UK could have done.

hiddenmnetter · 24/10/2017 16:09

I agree the siege of Stalingrad was around 10x the size in terms of troop numbers but look at the overall engagement of the allies on the western front following the d-day landings. Some 4.5 million troops to push against the Germans while the Russians had something in the 2 million troop range.

Moreover- look at the armaments; the Russians and the Germans were proud to measure their airforce in the thousands to as much as 20-30,000 at their peak. The US measured their airforce in the tens of thousands (and towards the very end over 100,000- having produced some 300,000 air craft through the course of the war, equal to roughly 50% of all aircraft production in the course of the war). Look at the destruction of the Ruhr valley (for example).

The Russians sustained far and away the heaviest losses, no doubt- some 11-12 million soldiers dying. But dying doesn't constitute being the greatest threat. I remember a famous quote about the purges: "Stalin didn't just take the heart out of his army, he gave it brain damage."

The Russian war machine was not as effective. It played a (fairly important) role, but the primary punishment of the nazi war machine came from the west, and was supported by the overwhelming power in both numbers and technological prowess from the US.

I say this not as some kind of US fan-boy, but rather when I was studying this at university I was struck by the efficiency and the raw manufacturing power of the US that allowed it to switch from a 'neutral' player to 'the sleeping giant'. It was the beginning of the shift from super power, to great power, to hyper power, although I think it's hard to argue with the fact that the US is now in decline.

Tamatoa · 24/10/2017 16:10

I also reported Olivia’s racist posts too.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 16:12

I'm 'affeared' we've reached the end of the road with @M4dad. He can't explain the relevance of Italy's external debt and why it relates to the SM or CU

This is you flapping.

Italy's external debt has the ability to affect us all in the EU......as per the link I posted.

Au revior, Olvia. I'd would say it's be fun but it hasn't, we could have had the same conversation without you having to resort to the tactics you chose to adopt.

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 16:15

@M4dad

You refer to the financial state of countries in the EU ... Like Germany and the Netherlands who are AAA and don't even issue their own currency. Just because a country defaults on its external debt doesn't mean you can't sell to it... Or to others within the SM/CU that haven't defaulted. Duh.

My agenda as you call it is to ensure this country doesn't go down the tubes which it will if it falls back onto WTO rules - the no deal option. No one, but no one trades on these terms. The US for example has dozens of trade agreements with the EU ... Just look in the EU treaty database.

HipToBeSquare · 24/10/2017 16:16

This thread got interesting 😂

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 16:17

Well @tamatoa, report this. I'm an old white female.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 16:19

Yes, Olivia, continue to act blind to the fact that so many countries are teetering on the edge and and some are already experiencing horrific conditions whilst on the other handing pretending that the EU is the only way.

It doesn't wash with me and it doesn't wash with others.

However, I do admire your ability to actively practice Doublethink. You should apply for a job within the EU Politburo. You'd fit right in.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/10/2017 16:19

What was racist?

The white man comment? How is that racists

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 16:20

@M4dad

Italy's external debt has the ability to affect us all in the EU......as per the link I posted.

Note you did not say how this could or would affect the UK. Or our membership in the CU or access to the SM. Complete bluster.

Tamatoa · 24/10/2017 16:20

No older white fat man (70% of the UK is overweight so educated guess) is going to intimidate me.
Say it again then, about the black brexiteers, or gay, or Muslim then??

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 16:21

EU Youth unemployment is at 19%

That's not a future I want for my boy.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 24/10/2017 16:23

I still dont get it

Is it calling someone old and fat?