Tim Farron has just left

[RTKangaMummy]

Just announced

He found Christianity in his late teens. It is likely to be the extremely proselytising kind. He's chosen which is more important to him, which is fair enough but to turn it round to "oh oh! I wasn't accepted cos you are all like, NOT VERY LIBERAL AT ALL!" was beneath him.

But Christianity is a proselytising religion. Again, out crassly, as a Christian, your aim is to save people, to get them to see the light and believe what you believe. And part of that is that there are objective rights and wrongs, as set down by an all powerful God. So I think they are at odds over quite a number of things.

As a Christian I have no such aim whatsoever. My aim is to love my neighbours as myself. I'm pretty crap at it, but I do my best.

But with respect Jellybeanz, that's not what it says in the Bible. The evangelical types are much closer to what the text actually states. You have a different view, which I wholly respect.

With respect, that is exactly what it says in the Bible. It's taken directly from the teachings of Jesus himself. Can you point me to the bit where Jesus directs me to save other people by getting them to believe what I believe?

I think Farron's flavour of Christianity is a bit different from your's Jellybeanz. I know the sort of Church he belongs to. A world away from mainstream Christianity and very uncompromising in its view.

No sleeping he isn't, grow up!

Huh?! So - what then?

I thought that was a perfectly reasonable question.

If he's anti-gay sex, he's a homophobe by definition, no?
Have I missed something?

Can you point me to the bit where Jesus directs me to save other people by getting them to believe what I believe?

The whole notion of the gospels! Gospel means good news - the role of the apostles was to spread the word; essentially to get other people to believe in what they believed. The whole Christian religion is fundamentally based on getting other people to believe. Many religious doctrines are equivocal, but that one definitely isn't.

.....plus - at the risk of labouring the point - the whole notion of the unforgiveable sin. The only unforgiveable sin (hence the notion of Catholic confession and all sins can be absolved and forgiven) is to see the work of God and attribute it to the Devil - ie not to believe that it is his work. It's a pretty fundamental tenet of the religion. It doesn't feature prominently in much of the teaching of the Church of England, I grant you, but it is absolutely fundamental to the philosophy of the New Testament.

If he's anti-gay sex, he's a homophobe by definition, no?

I think it depends what you mean by "anti". Anti = what a horrible idea, I wouldn't fancy that, but what you like is entirely up to you - is different from anti = it is objectively wrong and sinful.

Dragons Tom Faron isn't anti gay - he is anti gay marriage. The definition of someone who is homophobic is someone who hates gay people. It is very offensive to suggest that means the same thing.

Can you point me to the bit where Jesus directs me to save other people by getting them to believe what I believe?

The whole notion of the gospels! Gospel means good news - the role of the apostles was to spread the word; essentially to get other people to believe in what they believed. The whole Christian religion is fundamentally based on getting other people to believe. Many religious doctrines are equivocal, but that one definitely isn't.

So that'll be a 'no' then.

My understanding was that he is "anti gay" in that he does think homosexual sex is a sin (hence the knots he tied himself in when questioned on it.) He is a political liberal in that, despite that, he voted in favour of gay marriage.

There are various things that I think are wrong, which I still think people should have the legal right to do. My legal right should be to be able to tell them they are wrong.

So that'll be a 'no' then.

No - it's the entire narrative of the book of Matthew, the book of Mark, the book of Luke and the book of John.

There are various things that I think are wrong, which I still think people should have the legal right to do.

But that's a relativist position. You think - subjectively - they are wrong. That's different from the notion of sin.

So that'll be a 'no' then.

Matthew 28:18-20 is usually quoted if you want to be more specific....

It is very offensive to suggest that means the same thing

Is it? (Genuine question)

Why would you have a problem with gay marriage unless you had an underlying problem with gay people?

It says a lot of things n the bible that are rubbish and ridiculous in a modern society
Homosexuality is an abomnation : Leviticus 18:22

You can sell your youngest daughter into slavery Exodis 21|:1

You can be put to death for working on the sabbath Exodus 35:2

Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean Leviticus 11:7

You can burn your mother for wearing garments made of two different threads, the town should gather together to stone your brother to death for planting different crops side by side etc.

Just beacuse it is said in the bible does not make it relevant today or mean you have to live by it to be a Christian.

I think Tim Farron's speech re liberalism and religion was very apt. Too often anyone with a view that others regard as outdated or politically incorrect are shouted down. Freedom to express views is Liberty, sadly all too often those with Christian views are immediately pounced upon.

He can have whatever beliefs he likes- but as a party leader in modern Britain he has found himself unable to convnce an electorate that his political stance is sincere given his personal beliefs. We expect our party leaders to hold beliefs we can relate to and most people can't take this one.

Natalia - "Matthew 28:18-20 is usually quoted if you want to be more specific...."

Jesus was speaking to his disciples, telling them to teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost etc etc. I am not a disciple. I know some churches encourage their members to 'witness' but it is not our 'job' to convert people. In order to be saved we just have to believe, not believe and convert hoards of others to believe also.

lulu tbf many Christians disregard the old testament and say that the new testament how God wants us to live, using Jesus as an example.

Obviously people interpret the Bible in very different ways. Personally I don't think Jesus asks us to directly convert people but to live as a good example and in that way encourage others to follow him. That is actually way harder than going around trying to convert people.

Not sure what's going on with Tim Farron, all seems a little odd.