Genuine question for Tory voters

[Bluebeedee]

Really not asking this in a goady way- I just want to know if anyone has changed their mind over the last few days of TM refusing to do any interviews/debates. I don't think Rudd did anything positive for the Conservative party with her appearance on the debate the other night and what I have seen of TM, she seems like she might actually be having a bit of a breakdown?

4 million children in poverty? That's a lot. The number of under 18s in the UK is 11 million. So, what would that be, over one in three children and indeed teens in poverty.

I don't think we can take your posts very seriously when you trot out statistics like that.

silky it astounds me that people want to borrow more money and shackle our grandchildren with debt.

It worries me that many younger voters don't remember the 1970's and the epic fuck up of the economy by a Labour government. History has not treated Thatcher kindly, but at least she kicked the unions into touch.

The recent tragic events in Manchester will strengthen Tory support, because surely nobody wants a terrorist apologist (who think those calling for Jihad on the West have "done nothing wrong") as PM in such troubling times.

Abitofaproblem Well campaigning against the policies that have left people in such difficulties hasn't worked so far.

I think we could all throw a few incompetence accusations around at all parties. I suggest the u turn on dementia tax wasn't a great example of competent policy making, and the lib dems can't seem to get their leader to say that homosexuality isn't a sin.

The problem is I don't know how much I want any of the main parties in power. I don't like a lot about any of the leaders. It's terrible at the minute. I don't have a clue how to vote. Doesn't matter anyway though, as I'm in a Tory safe seat.

Yes hackmum, and the opposition to the NHS was ferocious. Anyone (apart from Jeremy Hunt) sorry they introduced it?

Agree though that these things are really not black and white for most people. I've been on a lot of Labour supporting threads recently and I know I'm not the only party member who dislikes Corbyn. I voted against him twice and would do so again if a decent candidate appeared. It won't make me vote Tory though because Brexit is the main issue for me. I want Keir Starmer negotiating that, not the clowns TM has lined up.

Mind you, I also think the Tories made this Brexit mess so they should clean it up. The problem is that education, NHS and social care will suffer terribly for it.

The debates do nothing for me. I agree with PPs, it's just a shouting contest against whoever's in power.

I haven't swayed at all, I'm voting Conservative because I think they'll do the best for us with Brexit.

I don't dislike Corbyn, I just think with Brexit and the loon across the pond, it has to be May.

The thing is the Tories always talk tough but don't deliver. TM has had 7 years to cut immigration - non EU immigration was always within the Uk government control and they could have changed benefits legislation etc to make things less appealling for unskilled EU citizens to move here - they didn't. Big business want an unlimited supply of labour to hire cheaply on poor or no contracts that the nation as a whole subsidises through tax credits etc. They don't care if people only work a few years and then go on benefits. They like not picking up the costs of training people for skills shortages but robbing the rest of the world of their investment in their young.

Remember this from Cameron www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/david-cameron-refuses-pay-eu-bill-december-deadline

It was later quietly all paid. We are constantly sold a pup - the "special relationship with the US" we were theonly country that had to repay the US their war and after war loans - we only finished repaying it all about 12 years ago. It gave the other EU countries a clear advantage.

How can anyone vote for TM knowing this: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html

Your families lives if forfeited to terrorism are merely the price TM is willing to pay (collateral damage) as the price of doing business with the Saudis

At least Labour are more upfront about their stance on these issues.

Lady you are being too logical by half! The thing is, there are decent arguments to be made about the impact of austerity. Hysterical hand wringing about the "miwwwions" of children in abject poverty just denigrates the entire argument.

And there will be a damn sight more impoverished children if our economy collapses.

tookawhile
I suggest the u turn on dementia tax wasn't a great example of competent policy making,

Isn't that my point, when policy is unpopular, a U turn can be forced. What can you do about incompetence during Brexit negotiation?

LadyinCement

www.endchildpoverty.org.uk/4-million-children-now-living-in-poverty-in-the-uk/

Set to rise to 5 million by 2020. I can't take your posts seriously if you can't be bothered to check the figures before accusing me.

Silky
It astounds me so many people are willing to vote on blind faith

But that is precisely what Labour voters are doing.

Corbyn won't even have enough loyal MPs to make a cabinet.
Do we really want Abbot in charge or anti terrorism? She numerically illiterate. McDonald wants to scrap MI5. Corbyn wouldn't confirm he would trigger the nuclear defence if needed.

These are very serious issues which cannot be ignored in the 'glow' of more money for schools, NHS, etc etc.

His sums don't add up. The government has NO money. It is your money and my money and our working kids' money. Even taking the rich will not produce enough money for one of his promises. The rest will come from the middle earners.

To say that TB and BB had nothing to do with the current debt and deficit is just crazy. yes, certain worldwide events were a factor but only GB raided the pension pots of millions of workers.

Abitofaproblem

The only reason May did a U turn was because it's an election campaign and she realised she was alienating her older vote.

I would suggest to you that Keir Starmer is a much more trustworthy representative than BoJo! Or David Davies...

Young, I agree people don't want to be shackled with debt thats why it is worrying that debt has risen under the tories despite their austerity measures, and the cost of going to uni has tripled. The fact is labour have promised to scrap tuition fees and they will have to honour it or be decimated like the lib dems.

Poverty in the UK is measured as relative poverty i.e. if household income is below 60% of the median household income - so there will always be poverty - by that very definition.

I would suggest to you that Keir Starmer is a much more trustworthy representative than BoJo Or David Davies

Keir Starmer is well set to be the next Labour Prime minister. Just not for a while...

'suce typos but you get the message.

Abbot in charge OF anti terrorism?

She is numerically illiterate.

Corbyn swerved the question about giving the go-ahead to the defence chiefs on nuclear warfare.

Is this the sort of weak and divisive leader you want?

Silky- so if Labour scrap tuition fees, (pandering to the young people's vote) where are unis going to get their funding?
How are they going to survive as research organisations?

Are you thinking that the magic money tree will provide the money?

Tell me how unis will be funded.

BeyondThePage

Keir Starmer is well set to be the next Labour Prime minister. Just not for a while...

But he and Barry Gardiner - also top notch - are the Brexit Negotiating team. I agree he would make an excellent prime minister.

@Ladymuck
No, I haven't. Labour's economic plans are entirely unrealistic. I can understand why people are attracted by free money - but would hope that they would realise that the HUGE increase in tax burden would not fall on a few anonymous rich people, but would affect everyone in the economy whether through the reductions in jobs, increase in prices etc.

LadyMuck puts my POV beautifully. Yes all of us would love everything being promised on a plate, but we just can't afford it and I am sick of it being presented as such a simplistic choice.

Didn't mean I was happy to vote Conservative though and really dithered between Blue and Yellow (postal vote). I think TM has been very stupid with some of her announcements and that has really harmed her.

I have to say that I am scared that there will be many people who simply don't understand the interaction though.
I am terrified to wake up next Friday in a world where people haven't thought this far ahead.

Polly I am voting based on facts, voting records, costed manifestos. So far you have said things that are straight out of the daily mail, not based in reality. We have been told there is no money, but the richest 1% have got richer, the bankers have got richer. Austerity doesn't apply to them. There is money for bombing syria but not enough to give our children a hot meal. Wake up.

silky the Tories are having to pay interest on the vast amount of borrowing during a period when growth fell under Labour. We do have a sect problem and it would be a lot worse without the austerity measures.

I really don't follow your point on tuition fees. You accept that we are indebted but want to borrow more to fund tuition fees? Would you pay household bills on a high interest credit card? Because that makes about as much economic sense.

IvorHugh Whatever else the 27 EU countries don't agree on, they are united in that the deal will be worse for the UK than now. This notion of Guy Verhofstadt preferring Labour because May is more likely to get a 'good' deal is simply ridiculous - it will be a nightmare whoever negotiates it. Hard not to agree with his views here: ‘A young generation will see Brexit for what it really is – a catfight in the Conservative party that got out of hand, a loss of time, a waste of energy, stupidity.’

You know what, if the shadow cabinet actually has some more moderate centralist MPs on, I would be probably be voting Labour. I believe the manifesto will be more restrained less La la land too.

But the fact that they all rather not to work on the front bench with Corbyn tells me something. I can't vote for the current shadow front bench. I don't trust any of them. I cannot unremember the infighting and Momentum etc. They are eerily quiet now but they will resurface once the election is over.

Whatever else the 27 EU countries don't agree on, they are united in that the deal will be worse for the UK than now.

Of course they have to - pour encourager les autres! Do we really want to belong to a club that promises to fuck us over royally if we have the temerity to leave? Interesting.

Even if Corbyn achieves only half of what he promises, those of us really struggling will be so much better off.

I honestly think that his outlandish claims and ridiculous "costing" will make life even harder for the very groups comments like this assume he will rush in to save on June 9th, because he will fuck over the economy and then we are all screwed.

The next few years of Brexit are going to be shit, I know that and have factored that in. It was a case of choosing the people who I think will get us through it least worst.