You should be ashamed of yourself if you vote Tory and…

[SasherinSuite]

Have children educated at state school
Use the NHS for ANY reason
Have children considering going to university
Have elderly parents who will require state support
Use public transport
Are a teacher, health professional, public sector worker
Live in rented accommodation
Are a low paid worker

You are a hypocrite of the highest order

"By the way, Corbyn has gone on record and said unequivocally that he was and is against all violence and bombing, but that he was also critical of how the UK govmt were initially handling things and wanted negotiated peace, in the period before the official peace process kicked off. Just reporting what he has said."

Straight after the worst act of anti democratic violence, the thing to say is "I abhor violence - this was an attack on our democracy ". Not , come here Jezza , I want a photo op to please my pals.

Why did he vote against the Good Friday agreement then.

birdsdestiny i just googled that and if you to a website called corbynanswers you will find a detailed answer from the horse's mouth.

i am not trying to vindicate anything one way or the other though

Save us the bother. Why did he vote against the Good Friday Agreement? Which, as I recall, the front bench asked him to support.
Was it perhaps for some self serving bollocks reason?

I don't know, I haven't read it yet, but will later. The other bit I quoted was learned after googling what another poster had put on here.

I know what he says about the good Friday agreement. He was wrong though wasn't he. The trouble is those of us who have been involved in the Labour party for what feels like a hundred years, know corbyn and his cronies. We have known them for a long long time. Kinnock did a fairly good job of getting rid of them in the eighties. There were good reasons for that cull. So you see none of it is a surprise to us, the misogyny, the anti semitism, the obsession with ideology over actually getting elected. We have an advantage over you, we know corbyn, we actually know who he is. I hope it explains his support for Assad on his Corbynanswers. It's funny I don't remember a blairanswers when he won all those elections.

radishal I should have also said that no, I am not going to do anything to save you the bother though! Read it yourself if you are interested.

Was it perhaps for some self serving bollocks reason?

I expect so. It pisses me off the way people put him in the same bracket as Blair (and Major), who actually presided over the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement.

I am a floating voter who has never voted the same way two elections in a row. I work in education and well remember that it was Gordon Brown who froze our pay in 2008. Our school was also not especially well funded as we weren't in an inner London borough. As a result, we were short on resources, both 'things'and staff.
One of my dcs needed hospital treatment which was put off and put off until our local MP got involved in our behalf. We finally got sorted over two years after the initial referral. My other DC was offered a place in a sixth form (our area has few school based sixth forms, we have a central sixth form college instead) which had to be withdrawn due to funding issues. DC ended up at the dire sixth form college instead. There were issues with finding nhs dentists - I remember pictures in the press showing queues of people trying to register when a new nhs dentist opened in Scarborough in the early 2000's. Labour also abolished MIRAS, declaring it a 'middle class perk' - that would be the same middle class who had purchased their council houses under the tidy 'right to buy' scheme. In this are that was mostly working class people who were living in the council houses that made up over 50% of local property and working on the production line at the huge car company down the road.

I'm not defending either side. Just saying that neither has an entirely blemish free record.

And those saying it shouldn't be about personalities - of course that matters. Could anyone truly be happy voting for a party who sends one of its most senior MPs to do a radio interview so woefully unprepared as DA was this week and then allows her to give another dreadful interview on the night of the local elections? And a leader who seems to think that's acceptable? A leader who does not have the confidence of the parliamentary party and yet clings to the leadership like a limpet, claiming he's there because his members want him there? At the time of his initial election to the position there were suggestions that many Tory voters joined the labour party purely to vote for JC so they could make Labour unelectable. TBH, it seems they may have succeeded.

I

I think the OP works for the Labour Party and this thread is a misguided part of the election strategy.
I use public services, I pay for them through my tax. I will vote Tory.
You could never of me enough to vote for Corbyn. He is a dangerous idiot. Corbyn as PM? Diane Abbott as Home Sec. Are you mad OP?

People vote for a wide variety of reasons. State schools and NHS are high on mist people's agenda I belive but it does not necessarily follow that labour will keep these safe any more than the Torres. Whilst the Tory government talks of cuts or rationalisation and have indeed made changes to both the NHS and education that have caused havoc the Labour Party is speaking of free school meals fir all primary children which does not redistribute money in favour of those with low incomes, equally the cutting of benefits by the Torres can real release funds.

Whileweareonthesubject two words for you.

Boris Johnson.

Yes, and what did the tories do with Boris, took him into the cabinet and made sure he wasn't on the back benches plotting. They managed the situation to ensure the best for their party. Note I did not say best for the country. On the whole Tories are good at managing their party divisions, Europe is/was at the heart of their divisions, but the referendum did not tear them apart. They are good at politics. (This does not mean I support their policies or vote for them). It is why they will win.

Noone can bang on about Diane Abbott being a buffoon while ignoring the fact BoJo was made foreign secretary, without being an enormous hypocrite.

Singapore is seen as classic capitalism. Over 90% of Singaporeans live in social housing.

Yes and no. Singapore government does build a lot of public housing and it's decent quality but home ownership is very high- i.e. The government sells them off. However, those sold units are still classified as public housing due to clawback provisions.

Also city states are a special case- they can typically survive on really low personal taxes because their corporate tax take from financial services is so high.

birdsdestiny you have said many people don't know Corbyn and this is true for me (at the moment), but some of what you have said is surprising - it seems you are saying that at heart you are not a Tory voter and so I do wonder what you are trying to achieve.

I am at heart a labour voter and for me Corbyn is a bit of a wild card when it comes to administration and diplomacy, but then for me another Tory term is unthinkable and libdems are a bit of a wild card too.

I am trying to keep in mind policy and not get blindsighted by the propanganda or spin or personal attacks.

In relation to propaganda, for example, you referred to antisemitism but Corybn has criticised the current power in Israel - as do many jews - which is quite different from antisemitism. In relation to the IRA Corbyn comes across as having been quite hardline unionist, and was a backbencher, and so there is probably some truth in your statement that he cared more about ideology over winning elections.

Am I right in thinking that you would like someone like Blair who was "good" at "politics"?

The conservatives' victory in 2015 has been questioned and criticised and fines have been levied....

What do you mean what am I trying to achieve? I am not in charge of the Labour party the last time I looked. If you mean what do I hope to achieve by not voting Labour. I don't want to vote for them and I am and will never be a Tory. Not sure how many ways I can say this. There are lots of us. I would give anything for someone like Blair.

In relation to "not sure how many ways I can say this" I haven't spent hours looking at every comment on mumsnet! I was looking at your last few comments on here.

As I said, I am not defending either side. As for BJ, I agree that he has been managed in a way that DA has not. It will be interesting to see what happens to him after the general election. I heard the DA interview on my way to work and was incredulous at the incompetence. Had BJ given the same interview I would have felt the same. As it happens, when mayor of London, he was a regular guest on that programme and I don't recall such a display of lack of preparation. I could be wrong since I didn't hear every interview.

In relation to propaganda, for example, you referred to antisemitism but Corybn has criticised the current power in Israel

No. Not that. Ken Livingston is still in the party for starters.

Haven't read the whole thread yet but I just wanted to ask the OP and anyone of a like mind whether they think the tactic of denigrating anyone who is thinking of voting differently to them is a particularly effective one?

Did it work in the EU referendum campaign?

Did it work in the local elections?

You know, the old "vote as I say, you idiot/hypocrite/racist/duped fool (delete as appr) " line. Is it a good political stance? Is it working?

WrongTrouser

You are right, Brexit and Trump were surprise results. But they were cased by the same issue of lack of political debate. The liberal side pushed there arguments and Annie who didn't agree was racist, homophobic etc.

All that did was make the more conservative people keep quiet until the privacy of the voting booth.

Hopefully we have seen the error of this.

It is quite insulting to say people who vote one way or another should be ashamed of themselves, people's political views are arrived at through their experiences which are unique to them. Arguing and pointing out different approaches and alternatives is fine , but at the end of the day we all have a choice and live in a democracy.

I don't share your optimism that people have seen the error of this approach Kursk . In my opinion it's actually getting worse. I have seen little evidence, for example, that the Labour party is exploring whether this is part of the reason for their trounsing at the local elections. Everyone keeps going on about Corbyn who I'm sure is part of the problem, but not all by any means.