Trump (Part 5)

[claig]

Continuation of the discussion on all things Trump and the people's revolutions

First law passed under a Conservative government. 1985
But, proposed by an SDP, sometimes Labour, MP.

Second law in 2003. Labour government. By a Labour Party Lord.

Still, "liberals" are to blame.
While the rest complain about immigration and do even less.

Is there any interest amongst Trump's supporters in the fact that he doesn't seem too bothered about the possibility of foreign states interfering in the American constitutional process?

Was it good miss ?

Agree with the Jabba commment lweji

Going to completely ignore the FGM discussion...its being used as a tactic on here which is shoddy behaviour...and no i am not a liberal if that helps

Deep, it was last discussed a few days ago on here and the general consensus amongst Trumpers seemed to be that it was all an MSM conspiracy. Basically straight denial that it was happening. As the saying goes, it is easier to fool a man than convince him he's been fooled.

No, Deepan you did not repeatedly acknowledge what is required in terms of evidence. You posted a list that teachers and other professionals are using. I had to point out several times that however laudable the training and the law are, no one can proceed. You seemed to think that because there is law in place and training given to spot signs, that this is enough.

Yes, I know it was discussed, but two days have passed with no evidence of this conspiracy and the situation has ramped up with Obama's response. It would be good to think that Trump would come out and do the presidential thing of saying that interference with the US constitutional process from anyone is wholly unacceptable, and that he supports action against those who are responsible for it. Of course, we all know why he is not going to do that, he doesn't want to offend his puppet-master. And there is this massive silence on that topic from his supporters on this thread.

I didn't say that I had repeatedly acknowledged it, Southall, I said "As repeatedly acknowledged". But in fact I did say upthread "Well yes, of course you have to have evidence to stop a family leaving the country." And I'm not the only one who has acknowledged that you have to have evidence to bring a prosecution or to take action to detain or impound a passport.

Where have I said that the law and training is enough on its own? I posted that section from government guidance as an indication that no-one is encouraging FGM. Do stop putting words into people's mouths and try answering what they actually say.

I see that you still haven't managed to point to a post of yours where you have explained why you say that liberals are allowing FGM to flourish.

Was it good miss?

Quite disappointed tbh. Was more of the same old same old

I suggest you check out your old posts, Deepan.

Deepan - Would you say you are a Liberal? If so, how would you describe that, because I think everyone has a different take on Liberal. I am speaking of the Regressive Liberal, as defined by Maajid Nawaz.

My posts relate to your statement that liberals allow FGM to flourish, Southall, and nowhere suggest that the law is infallible. So is there any chance of you explaining your statement?

Really important piece here and relevant to a lot of the rhetoric seen earlier on these threads and of course elsewhere. A warning from Turkey:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/15/truth-lost-game-turkey-europe-america-facts-values?client=safari

"We found, as you are now finding, that the new truth-building process does not require facts or the underpinning of agreed values. We were confronted – as you are being confronted – by a toxic vocabulary: “elite”, “experts”, “real people” and “alienated intellectuals”. The elite, with experts as mouthpieces of that oppressive elite, were portrayed as people detached from society, willing to suppress the needs, choices and beliefs of “real people”...

What is the practical effect of this new truth on everyday life? Well, consider one example. In Turkey today, we are obliged to indulge a debate about whether minors should be married to their rapists. It is predicated on the “real people’s” truth that in rural areas girls get married even when they are just 13, and thus have sexual maturity. It is, we are told, a thoroughly elitist argument to insist that a minor cannot give consent."...

Prepare for your own version of this. The other week, in Copenhagen, I attended NewsXhange, an international gathering of the media to discuss redefining journalism when trust is at an all-time low. The opening symposium was titled “Are we out of touch?”. There to prove that indeed we were was a jubilant figure well known to you in Britain – the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage. You have no idea about real people, he said, before offering us some gracious lessons on how he saw real journalism. One by one, panellists and members of the audience sought to corner him with references to fact-checking and double fact-checking, to holding politicians to account and doing better journalism. They tried to embarrass him by calling him a xenophobe.

And as he spoke, I looked at the expressions on the faces in the audience, and recognised them. They were our faces from 15 years ago, amazed at his audacity, wondering: how can he say that? – unsure whether to mock his twisted logic or to take it seriously.

An analogy came to mind: that this is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. Even if you win within the rules, the pigeon will clutter up the pieces, and finally it will shit on the chessboard, leaving you to deal with the mess. Farage, having told us to “cheer up”, and that this was “not a funeral”, did exactly that. Having dumbfounded the audience, he announced – as if fleeing a boring party – that he was off to meet Donald Trump in Washington.
Be warned. For 15 years we played chess with the pigeon in Turkey, but now we don’t even have the chessboard. Some of you still have time to shape your future. Use it."

Ah, so it's regressive liberals that allow FGM to flourish?
How? Why them in particular?

Aah, the old moving the goalposts to avoid the questions you don't want to answer tactic.

"Yes, I know it was discussed, but two days have passed with no evidence of this conspiracy and the situation has ramped up with Obama's response"

Yes, I agree deep, and the silence on this is quite striking. If in doubt ask why the liberals haven't achieved world peace. Must be their fault.

Check out Nawaz's definition of RL, he coined it afterall, and then tell me you do not understand. Regressive liberalism was at the heart of the sex exploitation scandals. When I use the word 'liberal' I always mean the RL which some of you must know by now from previous threads.

I have checked the definition.
It still doesn't explain how "regressive liberals" are single handedly responsible for allowing FGM to flourish.
What is everyone else doing?
Surely the Tories have been in government long enough to make a real impact on the subject. Or are they also regressive liberals?

Nor have you shown that FGM is indeed flourishing. What do you mean by flourishing?

I think it's because for Southall, it's what liberals stands for... tolerance, equality and liberty. Hand in hand with that is being PC. I imagine that she thinks that the pendulum has swung too far towards the liberals and that's why Trump got in and why FGM is still going on because no one is strong enough to deal with it... all tosh of course given how long the Conservatives have been in power. Correct me if I'm wrong southall.

Southall, I wouldn't tar all right wingers with the Britain First/EDL brush. Why do you claim all liberals are responsible for what people who describe themselves as regressive liberals may do?

Here's an idea. A small but lengthy solution if you will but Rome wasn't built in a day. Try helping women out in the Middle East. Some women over there are taking up arms to fight their oppressors. If an oppressed woman can pick up an AK-47 to save herself, her family and other women then surely they'll listen to why FGM is bad and hopefully stand up and say 'enough'

If you can outlaw the practice in the middle east, it's a start

Good point Deep.

Making it all so black and white is ridiculous.

Interestingly, statistics suggest that FGM internationally is in fact on a downward trend. Prevalence figures for the 15–19 age group show, for example, that it fell by over 30 % in Burkina Faso between 1980 and 2010, by 27% in Egypt between 1985 and 2015, and by 30% in between 1984 and 2014. In fact, at Kenya it was at 11% in 2014. It's obviously still nothing like enough but it does suggest that more liberal opinions are having an effect.

'all tosh of course given how long the Conservatives have been in power.'

Don't you understand that they are not "conservatives" in any real sense? They are Oxbridge PPEs, the same as Blair, and Cameron and Osborne admired Blair and called him "The Master" and even Gove admired Blair and modernisation and the modernisers. That is why UKIP was successful because lots of conservatives had finally had enough of the phoney conservatives who told the same politically correct lies as Blair, who want the same unisex toilets in schools, who want male and female to be removed from passports, who wanted to let Brussels bureaucrats take our sovereignty. As Peter Hitchens says "they are all one party", they are brothers with Blair and they support the same Iraq wars and Libyas and Syrias and Saudi Arabias.

Farage was a threat to the lot of them because he called out the nonsense, but Farage is nothing compared to Trump and Trump has ended all of their useless policies and caused a complete revolution which is why the BBC and Guardian are in pieces trying to understand and stop the people's revolution - Brexit, Trump and common sense.

Also, if Trump 'knocks the hell out of ISIS' then with any luck society or parts there of over there can 'reset' thus giving women the chance to say 'no more FGM'

Maybe in my naivete im being too optimistic but there is hope

deary me claig you are obsessed by Oxbridge and Blair...

And let's just wait for this trump 'revolution' shall we...