Trump (Part 4)

[claig]

Continuing discussion of the Trumpquake and populist rebellions

Yes, I forgot- you may have to travel twice, once for 'counselling' as your state may require this in an attempt to dissuade you, then again for the actual termination

this is $$$$

you need transport, time off work, someone to watch your other children

terrifying

sure interesting to see who argues hard for barriers to women's reproductive health, who wants women to be prisoners of their fertility

This is Anna, who should have got her skates on earlier. She would not hv needed to travel out of State if she had presented on time.

"So Anna went to the Planned Parenthood clinic in her town, looking to have an abortion. But she was 13 weeks pregnant, and Indiana requires abortions after the first trimester to be performed in a hospital or licensed surgical center."

I wonder what the overlap is between these consequence mangers and the ones who would excuse some men of any sexual assaults on the basis that, hey, it's locker room talk, let it go

Oh I wonder indeed

Some people may not know how big a state is.

It isn't like travelling within Wiltshire.

Travelling within a state to get to a clinic might be the equivalent of travelling from Dover to Aberdeen.

But, I am sure posters already know this and all my other points - I have been guilty of assuming they are posting in good faith.

They aren't- more/accurate information won't affect their postings, as they are nothing to do with anything that might be called truth or reality

Something else motivates them instead

Oh but uncontrolled, women get themselves dressed to the nines and then throw themselves at millionaires, so you really can't blame the poor lambs for getting a bit rapey sometimes. It's one of the many drawbacks of being rich and powerful - they just can't help themselves and it's wrong to hold them responsible for their own actions when it's obviously all the women's fault.

You know this woman, then?
I know her as well as you do.

And what is your point about the boyfriend?
It is not the boyfriend who had to find an abortion clinic and make the journey out of State, and all that that involves.

You know this woman, then?
I know her as well as you do.

And what is your point about the boyfriend?
It is not the boyfriend who had to find an abortion clinic and make the journey out of State, and all that that involves.

You accused her of things you have no idea of and mentioned the boyfriend.
So, neither are acceptable replies to my questions.

Southallgirl, I am repeating my question because you appear to have missed it....
"In an ideal world, there would be no unplanned pregnancies. You are right.

But in our far from ideal world, there are.

What should women who have unplanned pregnancies do?"

Squishy and Lweji - As we discussed a couple of pages ago, I don't believe in man made climate change because of anything Bob Geldof said - It's because of the huge mound of evidence and scientific consensus (Squishy)

Does what Ben Goldacre says below about pharma shake your belief in the science of climate change in any way?

"Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug's life, and even then they don't give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion [...] But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work directly for the companies, without disclosure.

My point is, this woman already has her hands full with her current life. No job, young baby, little money - read the article again Lweji if you dont get it. It does not say she is a victim of rape, for example. Why take a risk with getting pregnant again? Would you given her circumstances?

No.

That answer was to fourmummy's question

uncontrolled, women get themselves dressed to the nines and then throw themselves at millionaires, so you really can't blame the poor lambs for getting a bit rapey sometimes. It's one of the many drawbacks of being rich and powerful - they just can't help themselves and it's wrong to hold them responsible for their own actions when it's obviously all the women's fault

If that's your belief *Squishy", so be it.

Fourmummy, read this from Ben Goldacre on climate change:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/dec/12/bad-science-goldacre-climate-change?client=safari

Anna couldn't have avoided the problems she encountered by "getting her skates on earlier". The report says she went to the clinic when she found out she was pregnant, and only discovered when she got there that she was 13 weeks pregnant. The likelihood is that she had bleeds and therefore had no reason to believe she was pregnant earlier. There are enough documented cases of women who don't know they're pregnant till they're in labour, after all.

So why should she suffer for delay when the reasons for delay were out of her control?

Deepan But we don't know. This is just an outline of a case, no one here knows the ins & outs. You can apply as many layers of extenuating circumstance as you like. None of us know.

southallgirl? Are you there?

Well, take it as a hypothetical, then, Southall. Suppose for the sake of discussion that the facts are as I stated. Is everything that Anna went through right in those circumstances? What should she have done?

Yes, judgmental southall. Anna was one week out of her first trimester and who knows why she couldn't have gone before. There may have been 101 reasons why, none of which we know. As pps have said, it could've been hard cash, it could've been getting childcare, it could've been getting time off work to travel hundreds of miles Yet, according to you, this feckless woman should be denied help. What an awful judgement.

And what about Emily southall??

YOu haven't commented on the lengths she had to go do to get an early termination. To have to look at an ultrasound, to be questioned endlessly, to watch videos, to be SHAMED.

Deepan Well it doesnt actually say that Anna discovered she was 13 weeks only when she attended the PP in her State. She was 1 week out of State law and had to travel to Illinois. Each state will have to vociferously agitate and petition for abortions past 12 weeks but within 20 weeks to be allowed, so that women don't need to travel.

You're evading the question, Southall. Suppose the facts are as I suggested, i.e. Anna did not know she was pregnant until shortly before she went to the clinic and had no reason to believe she was anything like 13 weeks pregnant. Is what happened to her right? Suppose she hadn't been able to travel to a state that would allow her to have an abortion? What should she have done?

There may have been 101 reasons, but you do not know any of them. We know nothing much about her. But if she had attended earlier, perhaps a friend would hv looked after the baby. But going out of state meant her baby was without his mother for much longer.

But she had to go out of state because of the state's legal requirements. Do you condone that, Southall?

Each state will have to vociferously agitate and petition for abortions past 12 weeks but within 20 weeks to be allowed, so that women don't need to travel

That is not much comfort to a woman who needs an abortion at 13 weeks right now, not at some possible time in the future when the petitions might or might not have worked.

And under Trump and Pence the reality is that more states will have a 12 week rule, or even a "foetal heartbeat" rule, so the chances of those petitions having much effect are pretty tiny.