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Politics

Trump (Part 4)

1000 replies

claig · 04/12/2016 19:37

Continuing discussion of the Trumpquake and populist rebellions

OP posts:
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18
Roussette · 10/12/2016 13:05

And what if a woman is not regular in her cycles? I certainly would not want my daughters relying on the safe method.

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:08

It is possible (not likely, but possible) for a condom to break the day after your period ends, then to take the morning after pill, and still fall pregnant.

Chemical contraceptives are not right for everyone, and it is understandable that many women use condoms alone (best to use them more frequently than a couple of days a month though). However, it is also true that you can be very careful and still fall pregnant.

Roussette · 10/12/2016 13:08

Condoms are AFAIC a preventative for sexual disease. My daughters know that and are sensible enough to use other birth control methods and condoms if necessary. And no one is suggesting abortion is a birth control method, nowhere has that been said in any article I've read

Pence is a snake and women in the US need to be very very worried. If the Donald is impeached for instance, he could become POTUS.

SouthallGirl · 10/12/2016 13:09

Rousette This is not the 70s. We now have the morning after pill - that can be taken. We have early termination availability. And we have pregnancy tests. Once she knows she is pregnant, does not want to remain pregnant, then she arranges a termination ASAP, ideally not much after 8 weeks. That is being smart to yourself and the foetus. The brain-spinal cord-heart are not yet formed.

The bloodthirstiness that comes across to me, posing as Women's Rights, is quite shocking and without compassion and lack of consciousness.

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:10

Such an irony that someone who argues that access to abortions wouldn't be necessary if "women just took more responsibility" is also arguing that regular unprotected sex does not lead to unwanted pregnancies.

SouthallGirl · 10/12/2016 13:12

I did not say to use condoms for a couple of days. Disingenuousness again. I said for around 10 days after finish of period, depending on the length and regularity of your cycle.

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:14

Southall, I am arguing that the contraception should be used and the morning after pill should be taken if it fails. I also think that making it difficult to access terminations will result in a higher proportion of later terminations. If you want them to be ideally carried out within 8 weeks, you should be arguing for removing the barriers to women during that time.

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:15

And if all women followed your method South we would see more unwanted pregnancies.

SouthallGirl · 10/12/2016 13:17

It is possible (not likely, but possible) for a condom to break the day after your period ends, then to take the morning after pill, and still fall pregnant

Beano biology. The odds of this happening are probably astronomical and is not a reason to not avoid pregnancy (if that is what you want) with condoms. I know it's more difficult with a regular partner, but do-able if you cannot take the Pill or coil.

SouthallGirl · 10/12/2016 13:19

And if all women followed your method South we would see more unwanted pregnancies

Sure, among the sloppy, undisciplined who have gotten out of the habit of not taking care of their own business.

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:19

The odds aren't that astronomical South, tmi but I know that scenario can happen. Luckily not all unplanned pregnancies are unwanted!

Roussette · 10/12/2016 13:19

southall you obviously haven't read the article. About Emily and how difficult it was for her to get an early termination. Read it.

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:22

And having the safety net of a legal, safe termination does not mean that all women will choose that option, but it's still important to have that choice available. That's the point about choice - not everyone makes the same one.

BertrandRussell · 10/12/2016 13:25

"To push for abortion as standard birth control is very irresponsible" I agree. Nobody is. "It can harm the uterus and cause longstanding depression." I agree. So can an unwanted pregnancy and a forced birth.

BertrandRussell · 10/12/2016 13:30

"Sure, among the sloppy, undisciplined who have gotten out of the habit of not taking care of their own business."

And those are the sort of people you want raising babies?

fourmummy · 10/12/2016 13:42

This is from a wiki entry for Goldacre's Bad Pharma book:

His second book, Bad Pharma: How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients, was published in the UK in September 2012 and in the United States and Canada in February 2013. In the book he argues that:

Drugs are tested by the people who manufacture them, in poorly designed trials, on hopelessly small numbers of weird, unrepresentative patients, and analysed using techniques which are flawed by design, in such a way that they exaggerate the benefits of treatments. Unsurprisingly, these trials tend to produce results that favour the manufacturer. When trials throw up results that companies don't like, they are perfectly entitled to hide them from doctors and patients, so we only ever see a distorted picture of any drug's true effects. Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug's life, and even then they don't give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion. In their forty years of practice after leaving medical school, doctors hear about what works through ad hoc oral traditions, from sales reps, colleagues or journals. But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work directly for the companies, without disclosure.

Note the bolded sentences. As I said, we need more accountability and transparency in science (and journalism, and politics, and...).

SouthallGirl · 10/12/2016 13:43

Rousette. The case of Anna is exactly my point going forward.

"When Anna found out she was pregnant in October, she knew she could not have another child. Her son was still a baby and she was struggling to find employment as a 30-year-old single mother in East Chicago, Indiana, where she lives."

But she was 13 weeks pregnant

If I was unemployed, single, had a baby already and knew the difficulties in getting a termination were I would make damn sure I did not get pregnant again*. This is the self-responsibiity and self-care that I am talking about. She couldnt afford another child, so why take a risk and have unprotected sex. How much effort did her boyfriend put into her dire situation, I wonder? And she waited until 13 weeks gestation before seeking help !! Planned Parenthood in Indiana would hv aborted her if she presented during the first trimester.

Whose fault is that?

Roussette · 10/12/2016 13:47

And Emily?

Roussette · 10/12/2016 13:48

You are sounding very very judgmental southall

squishysquirmy · 10/12/2016 13:49

I'm sensing a double standard here: Men who boast about sexually assualting women are "alpha males" who must be forgiven for everything because they can't help themselves, but single mothers who have sex are sloppy, undisciplined smirking liars?

Roussette · 10/12/2016 13:53

This is Indana under Pence.

"Since 2011, Indiana has systematically passed laws that erode access to abortion and other reproductive health services. It was the first state to pass a law mandating the burial and cremation of fetal tissue and to prohibit abortion due to fetal anomalies. The state also charged two low-income women of color — Bei Bei Shuai and Purvi Patel — with “feticide” and sent them to jail, creating a dangerous precedent of criminalizing women who attempt to end their pregnancies. During his four years as governor, Pence, a self-described Christian conservative, signed every one of the eight abortion bills that crossed his desk and slashed funding for Planned Parenthood. These measures have caused half of the state’s clinics to close over the past five years and placed heavy restrictions on the six clinics that remain open. Just four out of 92 counties in Indiana have an abortion clinic, meaning a majority of women seeking abortions must travel long distances, on multiple occasions, to make their appointments.

Mike Pence signed every one of the eight abortion bills that crossed his desk and slashed funding for Planned Parenthood"

Easy for Anna, eh?

UncontrolledImmigrant · 10/12/2016 13:55

what some posters might not appreciate is that a woman may have to travel hundreds of miles to get to an abortion clinic

that means travel, and so time off work that may not be not be possible at the drop of a hat

I can see many reasons why 'well just get a morning after pill' and 'have a first trimester termination' might not always be possible for everyone

maybe it is easier to believe that women are generally feckless and bloodthirsty? I don't know. I guess I haven't had the kind of life that would lead me to think that is plausible for the majority of women Confused

SouthallGirl · 10/12/2016 13:55

Judgemental? It's because so many seem to have no sense of consequences, Roussette. There are consequences and I get the impression that for some years now that has been 'cultured out' of our thinking because there is always been someone/something to pick up the pieces of actions.

If I go past my c/card limit every month I will not be able to clear the balance. I would need to pay off a sum every month, and each month the interest would gang up against my paying off that debt. No one is to blame except me, even if those purchases were considered to be necessary.

BertrandRussell · 10/12/2016 13:58

In an ideal world, there would be no unplanned pregnancies. You are right.

But in our far from ideal world, there are.

What should women who have unplanned pregnancies do?

Lweji · 10/12/2016 13:58

She couldnt afford another child, so why take a risk and have unprotected sex. How much effort did her boyfriend put into her dire situation, I wonder? And she waited until 13 weeks gestation before seeking help!!

You know this woman, then?
You know she had unprotected sex and you know that she realised she was pregnant right away and waited until she knew she was 13 weeks?

And what is your point about the boyfriend?

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