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Politics

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I'm feeling very angry towards Brexiters [title edited by MNHQ]

115 replies

lljkk · 04/12/2016 11:09

...Who are Arses to pretend that they spoke with one voice in June 2016, that they all wanted the same thing and voters all voted for the same version of Brexit. It's was Bleeding Obvious that the official Leave campaign had a wide range of views what Brexit should be, and voters equally decided their vote for diverse reasons, anything but knowing precisely what they would get.

(Just listening to some ArseHat politician on Piennar's Politics, argh!!)

OP posts:
Yamadori · 18/12/2016 23:06

to pretend that they spoke with one voice
No they didn't.

StripeyMonkey1 · 18/12/2016 23:07

Yes, I'm angry too, but it's probably not helpful.

What does really rile me are the Leave voters who say they are happy to take a bit of financial pain. Why should I have pain I don't want inflicted on me too?

I really think that by willingly and deliberately inflicting pain on the whole country, certain Leave voters are more selfish than the reviled bankers. At least the bankers didn't want a recession. Some (not all) Leave voters seem to almost welcome it.

I appreciate that these may be a minority of Leave voters (I hope so!).

Kaija · 18/12/2016 23:14

"At least the bankers didn't want a recession. Some (not all) Leave voters seem to almost welcome it."

I have to say it is my feeling that they probably neither welcome it not wish it on others, but it is easier to say they knew all along it would mean this than to admit they were conned.

StripeyMonkey1 · 18/12/2016 23:16

I hope you are right Kaija.

DarthPlagueis · 18/12/2016 23:20

Wasn't there some data produced that showed that the vast majority of leave voters weren't prepared to accept any drop in living standard in exchange for brexit?

user1471448556 · 18/12/2016 23:22

Yep - also angry, particularly with a colleague who voted leave because she 'fancied a change'. Couldn't she have switched washing powders or something a little less permanent?
I am really angry about having my rights as an EU citizen taken from me and my family against our will. I'm really angry about the amount of money 'Brexit' is going to cost, whilst the NHS is screwed, the prisons are in chaos, schools have no money. I'm really angry about xenophobic attitudes being given a platform. I'm really angry that the EU has been blamed for our own government's failures.

StripeyMonkey1 · 18/12/2016 23:23

Even so, they are still responsible for what they have done. If people want to change their minds they can say so. Is face saving really more important than hurting others (and themselves)?

DarthPlagueis · 18/12/2016 23:25

I'm really angry with two of my colleagues who voted leave mainly based on immigration, and once it happened rushed to get dual nationality in Italy and Greece/Cyprus so that they would still be able to have EU citizenship.

StripeyMonkey1 · 18/12/2016 23:27

Yes Darth, I saw that data too.

My hope is that if we do see evidence that living standards could drop then people will be willing to say that this is not what they voted for.

Trump is the wild card here. Does anyone know how much trade we do currently with the US? I'm not massively keen on being more closely aligned with the US than the EU (meaning a likely move towards a lack of social security, lack of public healthcare) but it's better than economic meltdown, for everyone.

Crumbs1 · 18/12/2016 23:33

Yes angry that those most likely to suffer real detriment will,be the very people that fell for the lies and xenophobic hate based propaganda of Farage et al. A number of politicians have blatantly sold the EU as a pup to blame for all societies ills when the truth is EU protects the most vulnerable. The polarisation is caused by the impact of austerity cuts that disproportionately affect the less well off. No pay rise for nurses for five years but MPs - let's go with a decent rise. Cuts to bring all public services to their knees but let's still fund HS2.

DarthPlagueis · 18/12/2016 23:38

About 15% of our exports go to the US Stripey, much of it is financial/legal services and some is from US banks using London as the base for the EU otherwise they wouldn't get passporting rights.

PausingFlatly · 18/12/2016 23:41

Is face saving really more important than hurting others (and themselves)

Probably. The worse the economic effects, the more energetic the scapegoating will be.

It will not go well.

DarthPlagueis · 18/12/2016 23:46

The scapegoating has been going on since the vote and it seems those that voted remain and the remain campaign are to blame. Not the ones who have voted for and campaigned for what they wanted.

A4Document · 19/12/2016 02:12

Why should I have pain I don't want inflicted on me too?

This works both ways, of course.

Some would say hardship has been inflicted on many people due to our country having been in the EU. It may be financial (e.g. lowering of wages, or funds from British taxpayers going to what the EU prioritises, not what the UK decides). But it can also be how people feel about their sovereignty and democracy being transferred away, or the way the EU has stunted some parts of our country's enterprise. E.g. they prioritise large corporations who can afford to lobby the EU constantly and get the rules made in their own interests, at the expense of smaller, and perhaps more innovative, companies (Dyson being one example).

Creative fields have been influenced by the way EU funds are distributed, as of course only EU-approved projects will receive funds which could have been distributed to the UK's different choice of artistic endeavours. So arguably that is a harmful reduction in our cultural wellbeing.

It's a valid argument to believe you cannot put a monetary price on democracy, sovereignty, independence etc. People have given more than money in the past to stand up for those.

"EU citizenship" was forced on every British person in the 1990s whether they wanted it or not, and you can't even give it up without simultaneously having to revoke your UK citizenship. The price in return for this invented proto-nationality (ready for when Britain would be just a region of Europa) was the ratchet effect of one-way flow of various aspects of control of our own country, away to Brussels. No surprise that working on the Maastricht Treaty had been Jean-Claude Juncker.

The EU has prevented the UK from developing more trade worldwide, and held us back with outdated approaches.

The EU resulted from the CIA's ambition of the 1950s (as shown in declassified documents, see here) rather than being something Europe would naturally have developed.

The plan was always to create a European superstate by stealth, and this secrecy is undemocratic. At first, the American Committee on United Europe sent funds to the European Movement and the European Youth Campaign. The transfer of money via the ACUE to European federalists was to continue, to groups such as the European Coal and Steel Community. A memo to the vice-president of the European Economic Community recommends suppressing debate until the point at which "adoption of such proposals would become virtually inescapable". The sense of loss of the UK's self-determination as it has been absorbed into this agenda is also something which some people consider very detrimental.

The perception of those you disagree with causing difficulties you didn't ask for works both ways, and is definitely not just about money.

MangoMoon · 19/12/2016 07:53

Way back in the thread,** someone posted the YouTube clip of prominent Leave campaigners talking about staying in the single market.
That piece was put together by 'Open Britain'.

Here's the creator of that piece (James McGrory) attempting to explain away his creative editing:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sT8fkefynzM

It's always good to see both sides of anything, for balance.

Kaija · 19/12/2016 08:10

Plenty of prominent leavers said it, however the video was edited, I remember it very well pre-ref. And Farage and Hannan were both pointing to Norway and Switzerland as successful models for the UK.

Kaija · 19/12/2016 08:12

A4, it would work both ways if there was any evidence that being in the EU caused hardship or loss of rights to uk citizens. But there just isn't, however heartfelt those feelings might be.

InfiniteSheldon · 19/12/2016 08:24

Great link Mango what a disgusting little oik JG is. Nigel Farage suffers this misrepresentation on an almost constant basis its great to see an Open Britain campaigner called on it for once.

IamWendy · 19/12/2016 09:29

There is also no way of knowing if we had never have even joined the eu, that we would have been massively better of the whole time. I think we would have.

SallyInSweden · 19/12/2016 12:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tryingtosaveup · 23/12/2016 20:10

HaHaHa
My MN username has nothing to do with my financial situation.
And, as someone said up thread you can't put a price on sovereignty, independence and self determination.
We should all be concerned that were losing our freedom to this European Project which would eventually lead to a superstate overseen by Germany.
I'll go for some economic hardship anytime.
I do not want to be a citizen of Europe ( a non existent country).
And I want an end to FOM. The result of high immigration is changing our high streets and having a cultural impact.
And the effects of high immigration are not the fault of austerity. They are the faults of high immigration,
If our health care system, particularly our maternity services, and our schools are crowded then it is not for the Government to increase services. It is their responsibility to reduce immigration.
Which, thankfully, is what Teresa May is trying to do. Do for her.

Kaija · 23/12/2016 20:48

The trouble is, while you may be able to absorb price rises, and be unaffected by job losses, there are plenty who can't, and who will suffer without feeling any benefit from the more abstract idea of regaining sovereignty. While government and corporations may find it easier to slash rights and regulations post-Brexit, what control will you or I or any ordinary individual regain?

As for the NHS, there is a greater proportion of EU nationals amongst NHS staff than in the general population, so hard to see how there will be any improvement there. And if we leave the single market and lose a substantial chunk of overseas investment and financial services, the drop in tax revenue will mean that all public services suffer.

SallyInSweden · 23/12/2016 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DarthPlagueis · 24/12/2016 00:02

Tryingtosaveup.

Let me tell you something. FOM will not end, there will be lip service paid for controls. The effects on our country on the health service ARE to do with austerity not immigration, if not why have waiting times risen since 2010 but net migration only in the last 2 years? 87% of school children get their first choice school! It is down to the Government to increase services if there is a working population increase. The best counter to your point is that the LSE and UCL found that even if you cut immigration completely services would decline because the reduction in demand is far lower than the cut to funding through taxes that were lost.

Your prejudices get in the way of actual facts.

winkywinkola · 24/12/2016 07:54

Tryingtosaveup,

Please can you give give specific and concrete examples of how the UK lost its sovereignty?

I can't find any and since you seem so convinced of your position, I thought you must have lots.

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