Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Politics

Trump (Part 3)

1001 replies

claig · 29/11/2016 16:13

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Alyosha · 30/11/2016 10:42

Well I'm sure we're all agog to hear Trump's super special strategy, which appeared to be "let's use Nuclear weapons in the Middle East to wipe out ISIS".

I mean what could possibly go wrong with that??

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 10:45

Some of the contractors Trump ripped off went out of business. Were they not "the people" too?
He is ruthless, yes - but only to benefit his own interests. He has never acted in the interests of "the people", why are you so confident he will start now?
edition.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/trump-small-business-owners/
And this line: "People's focus on Trump misses the point" is pretty ridiculous on a thread about Trump.

I do not think we are all inevitably doomed or anything- Trump presents a very serious risk to the world, but he does not have limitless power.

The best way to mitigate the damage he may do is to keep watching, keep objecting to his hateful policies, and keep challenging disinformation as it appears. That's not "whining" or "screeching" or being a sore loser - that's democracy.

Alyosha · 30/11/2016 10:45

Informal - exactly.
the only thing Trump really cares about is lining his own pockets.

Anyone who helps him with that will be his friend.

Chris1234567890 · 30/11/2016 10:50

Fortune running the OECD report again yesterday.

fortune.com/2016/11/28/oecd-donald-trump-tax-spending-plans-global-economy/ along with his position on repatriating US dollars, it all positive stuff for the US. Cutting tax to attract business is absolutely the economically right thing to do.

Spin, unfortunately the Rotherham issues are continuing. This isnt a case of 'when it happens again' its a case of, its still happening and the connection to the Trump 'revolution' cant be dismissed. The fundamental inability to 'grasp the nettle' due to political correctness, is damaging lives today, despite assurances from all quaters.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/697583/Rotherham-abuse-scandal-child-grooming-gangs-industrial-scale-victims-CSE

My concerns over Austria have heightened this week. They are in an impossible situation coming up to the election this weekend. The Austrian people, as with so many across europe, have no means to be asked or heard on their views on EU membership. The centre and left refuse to ask the question, (for the obvious reason) so its left to right wing parties to grasp the nettle. We had the same here. Labour promised a referendum on the EU in their election manifesto. Won the election then u-turned on the referendum. Cameron was then left with no choice, but to campaign on the offer of a referendum. He then won. If he too, then had u-turned, the nation would have been in uproar, and both political parties would be where Labour are today.
Austria has the same issue, yet this week the anti-referendum camp did this.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38133209
The Austrian people are over a barrel in a lose/lose situation, none of which is their making.

Trumps attack on duplicitous politics, on corrupt and self serving policy makers, has gathered him 60million supporters. 60million. Thats a figure that even standing alone, should make the rest of europe, including Rotherham, sit up and take note.

user1480456766 · 30/11/2016 10:52

Trump is disasterous as I said previously.
If America sneezes we get a cold.

Southallgirl · 30/11/2016 10:53

ISIS execute a 15-year-old boy by beheading after he is caught listening to western music in Iraq. And you talk about what Trump did on a golf course in Scotland?

This is exactly it. Some posters have no sense of urgency or proportion. Trump is a hard-nosed businessman with nerves of steel, but a steady commonsense. He gets to the kernel of a situation, names it and demands ideas on a solution from advisers. He digests feedback, assesses repercussions of all possible manouevres and then and makes a decision. That is what is required in a leader of ANYTHING.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 10:57

And Trump has never been responsible for any disastrous foreign policy decisions yet. He's not had the chance (although some of the things he said during his campaign suggest he has no objection to an extremely high death toll, nor to ripping up the Geneva convention.) He has never had to make a difficult decision of whether to intervene/not intervene. He's really good at attacking others, at making everything sound simple, but that doesn't mean he'll be competent himself. In fact his track record in other areas suggests he'll be disastrous.

Alyosha · 30/11/2016 11:01

Trump is a business who has lost millions, defrauded millions more, never pays contractors, buys chinese steel and plans to give himself a massive tax cut.

The only person he's good for is himself.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 11:02

It is possible to be against Isis and Trump at the same time you know.
Coming back with "Isis are worse!" to every criticism of Trump is not a very good defence of him. Is that really the best you can do?
"Not as bad as ISIS" is an appallingly low benchmark.

It is also possible to care about more than one issue - highlighting a particular example of Trump's corruption does not mean this is the only issue we care about.

Alyosha · 30/11/2016 11:02

And spin - Trump wants to torture the family of terrorists. Do you agree with that?

Alyosha · 30/11/2016 11:05

YY Squishy! Exactly - we could make the same argument about Hillary, but we won't because we have better arguments than that.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 11:06

And yes Chris, issues like Rotherham are ongoing. It is disgusting when things like that are swept under the carpet.
I tried to make that very point on the other thread, but Spin replied with the comment:
"Of all the evil sinister and downright ridiculous assertions I've ever seen on internet forums that is the worst"
Which I thought was a bit of an overreaction to a completely reasonable observation, but there you go.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 11:10

"He digests feedback, assesses repercussions of all possible manouevres and then and makes a decision"

Does he fuck. He thinks about it for all of 2 seconds, gets furious and then goes on a mad twitter rant.

InformalRoman · 30/11/2016 11:13

Some posters have no sense of urgency or proportion

As I said upthread, how Trump has spent the last 50 years treating people in business (I did not refer to any golf courses in Scotland, that was claig, but if the cap fits ...) is a pretty good testament to his character. Screw everyone and anyone to get what he wants.

Southallgirl · 30/11/2016 11:13

When Campbell and the other deplorables were advising Blair about Iraq, they used something they found on the internet. Most of the document was written by a graduate student called al-Marashi and cobbled together with bits & bobs from various unattributed sources.

The lie that they put out at the time was unbelievable. The urgency in taking action, we were told, is because Hussein has the ability to launch missiles that can reach the UK within 45 minutes. This was reported by all our journalists; I dont remember seeing any one of these educated persons write a piece saying what a load of crap, except Gilligan.

I did not believe that missiles could reach us in 45 mins and I know fuck-all about such matters, except at the back of my mind I did remember reading something about ETAs if a nation were to launch an attack on UK (unrelated to Iraq).

How come these educated journalists did not query that? I knew, even next door's cat knew but they didnt. How can that be?

There is a group of doctors, the Frost group, who are still trying to get the David Kelly case reopened. It might happen, afterall it took 23 yrs to see justice done for Hillsborough.

"David Kelly's death certificate states that he died from loss of blood. But nine letter-writing doctors, who included some with expertise in vascular surgery and forensic medicine, challenged that verdict. The blood vessel served was the ulnar artery, the second in the wrist, which one of them described as the width of a matchstick. To die from a haemorrhage Dr Kelly would have had to lose 2,700ml (almost five pints) of blood. "It was impossible for 2,700ml of blood to have been lost through this small artery," the doctors wrote. Moreover, they added, the artery would probably have retracted on being severed and clotting would have ceased the flow."

Southallgirl · 30/11/2016 11:17

Trump wants to torture the family of terrorists. Do you agree with that?

Do you want to give them a free pass? I dont support torture, but family does know about the terrorist in their nest, names of people who hv come to the house, etc. However small a piece of info might be, it is useful.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 11:19

Southall, I am also troubled by Dr David Kelly's death. I'm not normally into conspiracy theories but there are a lot of things that don't add up there.
I also marched against the war, and have never voted for Tony Blair.

And I still think that Trump is a dangerous, manipulative, lying bully who needs to have every word, action and tweet scrutinised.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 11:19

So that's a yes then, Southall?

user1480456766 · 30/11/2016 11:22

Trump is not the right person for President that's for sure.

Kaija · 30/11/2016 11:23

"The lie that they put out at the time was unbelievable. The urgency in taking action, we were told, is because Hussein has the ability to launch missiles that can reach the UK within 45 minutes. This was reported by all our journalists; I dont remember seeing any one of these educated persons write a piece saying what a load of crap, except Gilligan."

I don't know what you were reading at the time, but I saw and heard numerous reports concerning the unreliability of the wmd claim. The cheerleaders for the claim and for the invasion were the usual suspects: the mail, the sun etc.

user1480456766 · 30/11/2016 11:25

The beheading is absolutely barbaric. Trump is a different entity but I do not trust his judgement.

Lweji · 30/11/2016 11:38

Very interesting article about Trump supporters and misinformation.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/donald-trump-george-monbiot-misinformation

"I first encountered the machine when writing about climate change. The fury and loathing directed at climate scientists and campaigners seemed incomprehensible until I realised they were fake: the hatred had been paid for. The bloggers and institutes whipping up this anger were funded by oil and coal companies."

"Corporate-funded thinktanks and fake grassroots groups are now everywhere. The fake news we should be worried about is not stories invented by Macedonian teenagers about Hillary Clinton selling arms to Islamic State, but the constant feed of confected scares about unions, tax and regulation drummed up by groups that won’t reveal their interests."

Scary stuff, actually.

Not the ones supporting Hillary, like claig would have us believe, but the ones for whom Trump is a godsend. They may not have funded him directly, but they have been funding all the conspiracy theories around climate change, for example.
Hatred against muslims and upholding the second amendment and gun sale suits them fine too.

But feel free to believe the the "Establishment" and the "Elites" were for Hillary.

squishysquirmy · 30/11/2016 11:40

Just had a really quick look, have found this article on the BBC archive that shows some of the opposition to the war in early 2003:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2765215.stm

and here's one from the Guardian:
www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/feb/08/politics.iraq

It's just a lie to say that mainstream media didn't cover both sides of the argument.
Of course neither the media nor the majority of MPs had access to all the classified information that Blair had, which is why lying to parliament is such a big deal.
Some of the newspapers were more pro war than others though....

Southallgirl · 30/11/2016 11:41

All of you hotly against the result of the presidential vote should go on USA chat media. There will be much to discuss and it might be more uplifting for you.

The so-called negatives that you list conveys expertise, keeping your own counsel, knowing how to get things, having people you trust, and not losing your water. But most of all, this energy is being put to work to reverse the globalists' grasp on America and the minds of some people (esp the young) who for decades have been parroting inanity, who have been taught never to point to and name a problem for what it is, never to suggest a solution because it will be howled down on cue by the brainwashed.

It's a nothing existence where real debate is shouted down, and if you dont go along with the consensus of opinion in school, at work, in the neighbourhood you are somehow less of a human being. People have been taught to be intolerant but the crazy fact is they think they are very tolerant and all-inclusive. Only tolerant and inclusive if you agree with their world view. The puppeteers are the globalist elite. The best way to bring down a nation is from within, and that has been going on in GB for a long time.

On the scantiest pieces of information, with little background knowledge, and with virtually zero education of how something has come about, I have seen audiences on TV totally unable to discuss. The puppeteers have done a good job; all it takes is for an individual to be labelled, the puppet people are wound and they are off!!! Critical thinking suspended, because they have been thrown a titbit of negative information about - in this case - Trump which makes him a thoroughly bad, unredeemable individual, must be eliminated because he will be a disaster.

Based on what knowledge - that he's hard-headed in business, that he likes women and tries it on with them. Where is this crystal ball of yours, I'd like a look.

Southallgirl · 30/11/2016 11:45

So that's a yes then, Southall?

Terrorists families should be interrogated very thoroughly. It is absolutely impossible that a family does not know something, even if the terrorist has gone to great lengths to cover.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread