Trump (Part 3)

[claig]

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

' I dont think he has an anti-muslim stance. He has an anti-possible terrorist stance and wants better checking of persons entering.'

Exactly. That was obvious from day one!

'I cannot believe that some of you hv been bigging this up as something akin to Murder 1.'

Al what is a nuke? Is it rude?

'So I wonder if you'll indulge me by explaining why you see good in Trump and how he will help people?'

It is a huge, huge subject and you obviously don't have time to go through all the threads as we all learned all the revelations about both Trump and Clinton.

Trump can be a bully, he can be ruthless, he has said outrageous and insuting things, he most probably has groped some women etc, and those are some of his negatives, but of course he also has lots of positives, and you have to also bear in mind the negatives about Bill Clinton, if you are aware of them and they are much worse than Trump, and also the negatives of Hillary Clinton which are much worse than Trump.

Trump has flaws and failings and is not perfect, but he is the only person with the necessary courage capable of defeating the useless elites who are wrecking our world with globalisation, which leads to low wages and loss of jobs and the free trade deals like TTIP and TPP that favour corporations above governments run by the people, and he is also against wars in the Middle East and Russia.

What it is really all about is that the US was at a turning point, Dr Ben Carson said "we are at the precipice" and the entire financial system is at a precipice and war was one of the only ways out and that is what the warmongers wanted. A faction of military and intelligence etc in the US supported Trump and helped him, and other factions supported the globalists who have been in charge for decades.

By Trump not being scared of anything and saying outrageous things he defeated the media because he refused to play by the rules and said absolutely anything and ultimately that is one of the main reasons he proved to the American people that he had the courage to defeat the Establishment and carry out the policies he was promising i.e. bringing jobs back, ending globalism, ending wars and putting "America First" as well as turning the US around, ending politicial correctness and identity politics which was dividing people which is what the elites want because that is the only way they can rule over millions of people.

The importance of his victory is that he has destroyed the elite's plans for globalisation and open border immigration which would have destroyed nation states and created a globalised world. Brexit was part of the same thing. We are now returning to the world of nation states and I think the EU will be finished in 2 years, and that is important because it will mean that we will all be ruled by our local national governments and we can vote the buggers out if we don't like them but we couldn't vote the EU bureaucrats out. So democracy is strengthened and our sovereignty is returned and that means we get freedom back and they can't easily take it off us or remove our free speech to object to their crazy policies of banning Germaine Greer speaking at universities or of unisex toilets in schools or whatever other things they want to do.

That is the short summary, have probably left lots out, but Trump has defeated them all. And Trump is in America and without America, all the elites are powerless because they need America to fight their wars or push their trade deals etc. Now it is all over.

I posted the best speech ever made by Trump on the other thread and here it is again. Trump explains exactly what it was all about and this is why they all fear and smear him. They have used lies and propaganda against him non-stop so you shouldn't believe everything they have all said on the BBC and Channel 4 News and elsewhere, they are expert spinners, Oxbridge. They are scared because Trump has beaten them and they tried to stop him with lies.

Here is Trump explaining the real core of what it was all about and why they are so scared of him. He says "our campaign represents a true existential threat like they have never seen before" and that is not a joke which is why they were so despearte to use their lying media to try and stop Trump and trick the people

Fundamentally it is teh people vs teh elites and amazingly enough, we the people won which is why even all their spinners and Oxbridge graduates in the media admit that this was a "revolution" and the biggest upset in the entire 240 year history of the United States. The entire world has been saved and the entire direction of the world will now be changed and the elites have been defeated.

Worth listening carefully to every word of Trump's speech. It was carefully written and covers all the important key points.

You gals sound as if you live in a cave, to be brutally frank

So much this. They need to come out their safe spaces and into the real world. The place where yes, nasty words get said and normal people get on with it

"we the people won"

No. You didn't. You do not speak for "the people".

We know that there is sexism and racism in the world. Perhaps we don't like it. Perhaps we are disturbed by the fact that people are willing to forgive these behaviours if someone says enough meaningless platitudes which make them feel good.

'Taking back control' and 'making America great again' are empty soundbites. People in Sunderland or Michigan don't have any more control than they did before. 'Global elites' is meaningless too.

No Southall it is not just his attitude to women that has put us off Trump, and we have explained our concerns repeatedly over two threads
I have NEVER compared groping women to terrorism or murder btw.
When I am back at my computer I can post some links for you that show the (unproven, but credible) allegations against Trump go far beyond the four women saying he groped them. I can't link easily on my mobile.

I am also concerned about terrorism but believe that Trump will be a highly unstable, unptedictable influence in the world and will exacerbate this problem.

This is not a victory for "the people" over "the elites" and it is not "media spin" that has convinced me of this. Even if I only went by his tweets and what he says at his rallys, I would be appalled.

Missswatch: the real world where Trump will bring peace to the middle East within weeks and stop globalisation like king cnut within months? The real world in which complex problems have ludicrously aimple solutions? The real world which is misteriously controlled by a huge conspiracy of shadowy elites (the definition of which keeps changing)?
That's the "real world" Claig and others inhabit....

'That's the "real world" Claig and others inhabit....'

No, that is the world the next President of the United States and his core team of advisers who will be the most powerful people on the planet inhabit. That is why the media liars and spinners are so scared. How can they now lie to the people about the world and who was "rigging the system", as Trump said, and who was ripping people off and all their Middle East Wars etc and their WMDs and their dodgy dossiers and their Libyas and their "Assad must gos" etc when the President of the United States calls them all "a room full of liars" because he has top military and intelligence who have told him the truth?

They are desperate, they have been exposed as liars in Wikileaks and Trump called them "a room full of liars" and Trump means business, he is not a "career politician", he intends to sort the elites out, because they have been ripping off the American people, for the sake of honest, hardworking Americans and people across the world.

They have four years of panic to come and then probably another 4 years of it, followed probably by Trump's son Donald Trump Jr.

But they have not given up yet. They are desperate to stop Trump getting in on Jan 20. We will have to wait and see what happens.

It'll take longer than the short time span you are thinking of that's for sure

The shadowy elites Claig is referencing I believe are the Bilderberg group. Yes they are a real thing though tbh I'm not one for conspiracy theories. I think they exist just for discussion and hold little power

Evening Claig.

Just so theres no misunderstandings, I will not respond to any posts on here from squishy, kaija and alyosha due to the disgusting posts from the previous thread, so dont bother goading guys, Im sweeping on by.

Sorry your being trolled Claig, but the 'Trump Supporters are neo-nazi and white supremacist' thread only had 2 posts, so theyre clearly hi-jacking yours. Price of getting it right I suppose.

Here you go Southall.
It's the Huffpost, which I am sure you don't trust, but you did say you like to get your news from a variety of sources so I am thought you wouldn't mind. And the same story can be found elsewhere, this write up is just a particularly good, concise summary.
I read your Infowars links so I hope you will be willing to read this.
The case in question was dropped after the Jane Doe received multiple death threats. We cannot know for sure what happened, and I am not going to pretend that we do - only Trump and the women mentioned in the article know for sure - but your statement that the only allegations made against Trump were by four women for "groping" is inaccurate.

Warning: the article makes for unpleasant reading, possible triggers.
www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html

Well, another piece of disappointing news for Claig et al is that almost all of Trump's appointments so far are career politicians - the very definition of elites, I believe. How galling. So much for the elites running for cover; they are just patching up.

Disgusting posts, Chris?

Hi Chris, good to see you again so that we can get back to the impending Renzi vote, the EU banks, the Austrian vote, Soros and the colour revolution tatcics using protestors etc

I didn't read a lot of the posts on the last thread, I skipped over them.

'the 'Trump Supporters are neo-nazi and white supremacist' thread only had 2 posts, so theyre clearly hi-jacking yours'

Exactly. I asked some to start a new thread if they wanted to discuss that to see how many people wanted to post on it.

I only post on my own threads now so that I don't upset posters who don't like my views. They set up a separate thread where i promised not to contribute. If they want to turn every thread into a "neo nazi" "fascist" race baiting Russian troll thread, it would be better to start a separate thread on that.

Just to clarify to anyone who wasn't on the previous threads, I have had to say this over and over and over:

I have made no accusations of fascism, naziism, or white supremacy against other posters. I have not "smeared" anyone .I have never said that all Trump supporters, or all leave voters are racists or fascists. I have not said that, because I don't think it's true

Neither have Kaija or Alyosha.
The closest I have come to doing this is the question I asked Southall a couple of pages back, which I believe was justified.
I have not made any personal attacks on other posters either, although I have dissected and strongly criticised many of the arguments put forward. At times the debate has become heated, and nastiness has definitely flowed in the other direction.

I have been repeatedly accused of personal attacks by Spin, Chris and Claig but none of them have been able to provide any examples.

If Chris and others don't want to talk to me that's fine - he never answered any questions anyway, although I always answered his. But I won't be falsely accused by him.

Claig.

You are a self-proclaimed lover of free speech. I am sure you will welcome and engage with all views on Trump and his supporters, positive or negative. Am I wrong?

"I didn't read a lot of the posts on the last thread, I skipped over them."

Me too Claig. May have to do a lot more skipping too but hey ho. As you say, far more important things going on in the world, this week especially!

Nice to see the Democrats making a statement...

thehill.com/homenews/campaign/307787-annoyed-dems-dismiss-recount-as-waste-of-time

Missswatch, I do believe that there are powerful, wealthy people in the world who use their influence to advantage themselves. I do not think that we see everything that goes on - far from it.

However, I think that the world is too inherently chaotic for some of the theories we saw floated on the other threads. The degree of co-operation, and the numbers of people involved, make Claig and Spin's theories of "elites" "academics", "religions" and "corporations" all colluding together in one huge over-arching conspiracy just too unbelievable for me, I'm afraid.

'Am I wrong?'

No, if the insults are persistent of "white supremacism", "pro Russian troll", "fascist" etc, then I am not interested in engaging. I don't like abuse and abusers. If you want to discuss politics and policies without personal attacks then no problem.

Claig Fucking 'ell - I am just blown away by the vid you re-posted, and he's put into words what I've found hard to find to describe our present-day media. DT says:

"Let's be clear on one thing. The corporate media in our country is no longer involved in journalism. They are a political special-interest, no different than any lobbyist or financial entity with a total political agenda and the agenda is not for you - it's for themselves.

"Anyone who challenges their control is deemed a sexist, a racist, a xenophobe. They will lie, lie lie and then again they will do worse than that; they will do whatever is necessary. The Clintons are criminals, this is well documented and the establishment that protects them has engaged in a massive cover-up if widespread criminal activity at the State Department and the Clinton Foundation, in order to keep the Clintons in power.

"They knew they would throw lie at me, my family and my loved ones, they knew they would stop at nothing to stop me. Nevertheless, I take these slings and arrows gladly for you, I take them for our movement so that we can have our country back. I knew this day would arrive, it was only a question of when and I knew the American people would rise above it and for the future they deserve.

"The only thing that can stop this corrupt machine is you, the only force strong enough to save our country is us, the only people brave enough to vote out this corrupt establishment is you the American people."

(There is a bit more that I havent transcribed).

This is a superb speech, and most certainly not the presentation of a businessman past his sell-by date that all the communists on this thread are yelling.

I haven't attacked you, as you know.

Missswatch Also the Club of Rome, a very strong entity.

Oh and Missswatch, Claig defined the "elites" at one point as being the top 0.7% richest people in the world (except Trump, natch). All MSM journalists were their puppets, and there was some other stuff about Oxbridge, PPEs, teenage whizzkids, SPADs, the pope and Soros which I can't go into now.

This definition of "elite" did change throughout the discussion though.
And Chris's definition of "elites" seems to boil down to "journalists", although I could be wrong about that.