Trump (Part 3)

[claig]

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

I don't know anything about them

I think it became painfully obvious from early in the thread that maybe you should learn a bit about things before talking about them or supporting them.

Hence, cult follower vibe.

"I didn't believe the media about thr 45 minute dossier"

The Mail and the Sun promoted the 45 minute claim. Meanwhile it was being questioned and dismantled daily on the BBC.

'Maybe you should stop dismissing everyone with concerns about Trump as an "identity liberal" or "servant of the elite" and try to see our point.'

I know the other side, it is the BBC side, it is the Tony Blair side, that is all we ever hear on the media. I have heard it all before. It is Project Fear and Cameron and Remain. The whole country has heard that and no longer believes it. If you want to believe it, that is fine, it's a democracy, but I don't believe it. I have thought about it because I like politics, and for me Trump is by far better than the elites, and lots of people agree with me which is why the populist rebelllion is rocking the elites all across Europe and America. I read the Stephen Hawking article later, and it is the usual spin.

Oh and Mills was a liberal who had some views on the "tyranny of the majority" you may find interesting.

I think your main problem with Blair, and in future with Trump, is that you put too much faith in your idols.
Blair was never going to be much better than most politicians. And neither will Trump.
Blair was always centre-left (with a bit of a leaning towards the other side, as most centrists have).
Certainly a disappointment in relation to Iraq, although he wasn't alone either.

But, I do think it would be healthy for you to apply some critical judgement on those you champion, rather than the enthusiastic blind faith you have.

'"He who knows only his own side of a case knows little of that.'

I know both sides which is why I can debate all Blairites and all Never Trumpers and all anti Trumpers, because I understand the other side and their arguments, and I am with Trump, the next President of the United States. I don't think Trump is "unfit" like so much of our political class, I am with Trump, and I knew the people were with him too and would elect him.

yy Lweji, blind evangelical hero worship of anyone is a terrible idea. Let alone a man like Trump!

'Oh and Mills was a liberal who had some views on the "tyranny of the majority" you may find interesting.'

Tyranny of the Majority is Establishment Sir John Major's argument to try and stop Brexit. I am a democrat, I believe in what the majority decide should happen, not what an elite think. I believe the people should decide, not an Oxbridge clique. If the majority like the Blairites and the 172, then so be it. But if the majority want Brexit, then too bad for the BBC and the Oxbridge clique.

"I know both sides which is why I can debate" and yet you say "I don't know anything about them" re Hofer.

You don't debate, you pick a side and blindly stay with it.

Just that you quoted him to make your point and I thought you may be interested in some background info on the people you quote... I should have learnt by now that you're not interested though.

Here is the esteemed Oxford PPE, Simon Jenkins, writing in the Guardian

"For myself, I cheer as people protest that it no longer “means” anything to be left or right, liberal or conservative. If the left is so lacking in confidence it needs to launder itself as “progressive”, that is fine by me. But I just want to kick over the tables, rip up the rule books, get on with the debate. I want to re-enact the glorious revolution of 1832."

I don't know what the glorious revolution of 1832 was, but if it was a people's revolution led by anyone like Donald J Trump, then it is good enough for me.

'You don't debate, you pick a side and blindly stay with it.'

No, I don't. You can quote me Stephen Hawking and I can show you why it is spin, same obviously with Blair, but that is too easy.

I must admit, I'm very confused about Oxford PPEs. Is Simon Jenkins' OK (because?? ) but anyone else's PPE isn't ok. Or is it only if they have a PPE and then go into politics or work for the BBC or Guardian? (But Simon Jenkins writes for the Guardian).

Blair said "I don't understand what is happening in politics any more"

That is pretty obvious when you listen to him.

'I must admit, I'm very confused about Oxford PPEs. Is Simon Jenkins' OK (because?? ) but anyone else's PPE isn't ok. Or is it only if they have a PPE and then go into politics or work for the BBC or Guardian? (But Simon Jenkins writes for the Guardian).'

No, Simon Jenkins is an esteemed PPE because he gets it right, he understands it, he makes a good argument. A non-esteemed PPE is a spinner who "doesn't understand what it happening in politics any more" i.e. Tony Blair.

The esteemed ones seem to be outnumbered by the ones that don't "understand" what is happening just by reading their take on Trump, for example.

It's very straightforward, Swedish. If they express support for liberal values they are "elite".

" You can quote me Stephen Hawking and I can show you why it is spin"

You can't though.

I had a feeling (what else?) it might be that Kaija.

So "esteemed" = agree with me, "elite" = don't agree with me. Got it.

'You can't though'

Quote me some Hawking and I will dissect the spin. Don't bother quoting Blair or Sir Bob or Izzard, that would be far too easy.

You can quote me Stephen Hawking and I can show you why it is spin

Actually you don't show anything. You just call it spin and then go on a rant about how the BBC can't keep up with the change.

I see I should have researched the glorious revolution of 1832 to find out what it was all about because Les Miserables was based on it apparently, and the Trump Revolution is all about Les Deplorables and so the two are closely interconnected as populist rebellions against the elites.

"The June Rebellion or the Paris Uprising of 1832 (French: Insurrection républicaine à Paris en juin 1832), was an anti-monarchist insurrection of Parisian republicans on 5 and 6 June 1832.
...
Author Victor Hugo described the rebellion in his novel Les Misérables, and it figures largely in the stage musical and films based on the book."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Rebellion

Who says history doesn't repeat itself? The battle of the people vs the elites will continue till the end of time, but with Donald J Trump, the people have defeated the elites for now.

'with Donald J Trump, the people have defeated the elites for now.'

But don't rest easy, Trumpsters, the elites are bringing Blair back and all the PPEs, the BBC, the whole nine yards, the whole gang is being reassembled to try and stop Brexit.

Donald Trump does not represent "the people"

The leavers in my family all voted leave for different reasons. One elderly member of my extended family cited that the EU working time directive was encouraging laziness amongst the young as her main reason for leaving....
She is very pro-establishment and will be horrified to learn that she is part of the people's revolution against the elites! .

'She is very pro-establishment and will be horrified to learn that she is part of the people's revolution against the elites!'

Does she like Farage? Give me 5 minutes to explain to her what the elites are up to and she would be leading the revolution, I guarantee you.