Trump (Part 3)

[claig]

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

Who? Tony Blair?

I think the idea that Trump (and Brexit) voters represent the "oppressed underclass" is a huge oversimplification Claig.
And the idea that Trump and Arron Banks have anyone's interests but their own and their cronie's in mind is a titanic mistake.

''The EU is DYING before your very eyes' Farage says Renzi will LOSE crucial vote'

Responding to whether he thought there was a possibility the EU could ever become “unified” again, he said: “They can’t, the European Union is dying before your very eyes.

www.express.co.uk/news/world/739451/nigel-farage-slams-dying-european-union-learning-lessons

He was right all along. That's why they don't like him.

Ah, you've come out of your trance. Are you hoping that Norbert Hofer will win in Austria?

Do you think the word "elite" can ever have positive connotations?
For example, Olympic contestants are elite athletes, Noble prize winners are elite scientists etc.

'I think the idea that Trump (and Brexit) voters represent the "oppressed underclass" is a huge oversimplification Claig.'

I agree, the media has lied all along. I am middle class and I support both. Most of middle class England supported Brexit and the majority of people earning over $50,000 in the US supported Trump. And so did lots of working class voters. But what united most of us is we have had enough of the useless political class who have spun us and lied to us.

We are, as Trump said, "the forgotten people", "the silent majority" who are sick of being spun by the media and the elites. It is the same all over Europe as we will all see as the people's revolution topples those in power over the people.

'Do you think the word "elite" can ever have positive connotations?'

Absolutely, an intellectual elite from Oxford and Cambridge. No one wants to be run by plonkers, that is why so many of us don't like Blair. We want good, clever elites who listen to the people, people like Trump and his billionaire team.

" we have had enough of the useless political class who have spun us and lied to us."

You wanted corrupt billionaires to lie to you instead.

'Are you hoping that Norbert Hofer will win in Austria?'

Absolutely because it will rock the elites, the spinners and the media teams even more as the people topple the people who have ignored them for so long.

And yet you expressed such hurt and outrage at the merest lighthearted hint that your nationalist and populist leanings might be described as "nationalist socialist".

And now here you are supporting a far right, anti-Islam, anti-immigrant party founded by actual Nazis.

I guess that clears things up.

'And now here you are supporting a far right, anti-Islam, anti-immigrant party founded by actual Nazis.'

I don't know anything about them, but like the majority of teh people, i don't believe the media. I agree with Trump 100%, they are a "room full of liars" and spinners.

People like you and the BBC told us that Trump was a "racist" and a "white supremacist". No one believed the media, everyone knows they are liars.

As Trump said to Anderson Cooper, the spinner for CNN

"the people don't believe you. The people don't believe the media"

That is where we are - in the midst of a people's rebellion against the elites, their puppet political class and their subservient media who lied about Trump and tried to put Hillary in.

Oh. You don't know anything about them.

This is not a people's rebellion. This is the seizing of power by the far right.

That's right

That's right, I don't know anything about them.

Keep lying about "far right" and more and more people will vote for populists, because no one is fooled by the "far right" lie.

The lies here are all yours Claig.

Maybe if you don't know anything about them and Kaija does, you shouldn't dismiss her statement that they are a "far right anti-Islam anti-immigration party founded by actual Nazis" as a lie....

As the esteemed Oxford PPE, Simon Jenkins, wrote in the Guardian

British liberals, of whatever party, have spent the past six months fleeing one trauma after another, hurling insults over their shoulders. But as John Stuart Mill said: “He who knows only his own side of a case, knows little of that.”

The apostles of identity liberalism have fallen into Mill’s trap. They see authoritarianism in others, but not in themselves. They see discrimination in others, but not their own. In guarding their chosen tribes, they fail democracy’s ultimate test, of tolerance for the concerns of those with whom they disagree. Someone else is always to blame.

Such tunnel vision has jeopardised the progress made by the cause of European liberalism over the past half-century. It has been given a bloody nose, and there are more on the way."

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They will never learn because they despise the people and now they want to bring Blair back to disrespect the people even more. That is why it is over for them, that is why Trump won.

If you insist on fervently supporting parties and people you know nothing about then chances are you will end up singing the praises of fascists eventually. That doesn't make you a fascist or racist, but it's a pretty daft way to behave.

I don't believe anything Kaija says. Kaija accuses me of "white supremacism", Trump of "white supremacism" as well as lots of other things. That is what John Mills said about these people, they disrespect the views of people who disagree with them, they have no tolerance, they are intolerant, they are Blairites.

Claig you obviously feel you were fooled by Blair, you voted for him then you feel he betrayed you. You believed in him presumbably, and thought it was the start of the brave new world. How can you be so sure that you are right about Trump. Perhaps he won't deliver utopia. Perhaps you are mistaken again.

squishysquirmy, I don't believe the media. I didn't believe them that Trump was a "racist" and had no chance of winning and I don't believe BBC Newsnight as their Oxbridge graduates try to smear him every night, and I was right, Trump won.

I didn't believe the media about thr 45 minute dossier and about Farage being a "fascist" etc.

I agree with Trump, they are "a room full of liars".

"He who knows only his own side of a case knows little of that." Great quote. Maybe you should stop dismissing everyone with concerns about Trump as an "identity liberal" or "servant of the elite" and try to see our point. You won't even read our links though.

Claig, you just said you support Norbert Hofer, the far right leader of a party founded by Nazis.

There really isn't anything I could accuse you of that you haven't admitted in your own words.

'Claig you obviously feel you were fooled by Blair, you voted for him then you feel he betrayed you. You believed in him presumbably, and thought it was the start of the brave new world. How can you be so sure that you are right about Trump. Perhaps he won't deliver utopia. Perhaps you are mistaken again.'

I agree with you 100% birdsdestiny. I don't know what Trump will do, I can only hope he is for real and is for the people. I never said I am sure what he will do. I support him because he seems like the best hope for the people and the whole world. But he may let me down, the elites may get to him, they may control him. We will have to wait and see. But all you can do is support the best alternative available at the time.

Trump is not an Oxford PPE, so he is not a trained puppet, fasttracked up the political ladder by the elite, so so far Trump, the outsider, is looking good.