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Trump

1005 replies

claig · 12/11/2016 08:30

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

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Thread gallery
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Southallgirl · 14/11/2016 17:20

What Claig has said all along (and I now see it clearly) is that the media was working against Trump, which is hardly objective. All the TV presenters and journalists here and in USA continue to be hostile towards Trump. She always said that the whole media was against him because they are part of the rot that promulgates untruths and imports terrorists into both countries.

The intelligence and role of political journalist has taken a huge dip for me recently, especially when several of them have stated they never thought that Trump could win. Even the senior, very experienced Christiane Amanpour said the same on TV on Sunday morning. But why didnt they see it coming? Claig did, others on MN did - and we are not journalists with access to rallies or in a position to fire questions at politicians.

This suggests that they have no intuition, are shortsighted and without imagination. Or, they were deliberately fomenting hostility against one candidate. Quite frankly, if they are this crap or non-objective in their jobs they should find another one.

If I made a mistake of a similar magnitude in my job, I would be out. Most of them deserve to be booted out.

claig · 14/11/2016 17:29

But why didnt they see it coming?

They are part of the rigged system. They are not independent. Their job was to turn as many people off Trump as possible for their elite masters. The American people kept silent and in a silent revolution, the silent majority defeated the crooks who lied to them and tried to cheat them.

'Or, they were deliberately fomenting hostility against one candidate.'

Yes, that is what they were doing. They have all now been discredited which is why they now have reports on the BBC about why did the media get it wrong to try and convince people that it was just a mistake, but the punchline in their reports is that the non-mainstream media, twitter, facebook etc need "regulating" because they can't be as trusted as the "mainstream media" can.

'Most of them deserve to be booted out.'

I think the elite bosses will have to sack some of them just to make it look as if they got the message.

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MakeItStopNeville · 14/11/2016 17:36

Going back a few posts but the flash mob attacks in Philadelphia have nothing to do with Trump. These have been a problem in Philly for a while. The same flash mob of teens attacked several students last month at TU. They just want to have a fight. I don't really get why you think the DM's coverage is anti Trump, claig. They are most definitely pro Trump biased and their coverage of the demonstrations has completely ignored the many, many peaceful demonstrations that have occured. I have never seen people so upset. There were people crying in the streets of my town on Wednesday. Not because their team lost but because of everything that Trump's campaign represents.

I'm taking the Farage trip to NYC with a generous pinch of salt. The photo of him with Trump was taken in the flippin' elevator, for God's sake.

I don't know how many of you saw last night's interview on CBS but Trump came across as more bewildered and overwhelmed than hard speaking. Whenever he was asked to say how he was going to implement any of his policies he was all flowery and "I'm not going to talk about that" or "We're not worrying about that right now". Until he got to abortion where he decided it would be a wonderful idea for women to have to go out of state. Which is just, errr, great. Let's go back in time and keep those darned women in their place, eh?

As a US resident, it's an extremely worrying time. And, imo, it wasn't the Democrats that were the losers but the whole country.

Southallgirl · 14/11/2016 17:47

I also think that Theresa May is an excellent woman, but I was not pleased at how she rebuffed using Farage as a go-between. I knew she had to say that, otherwise she would be aligning herself with Ukip, but just hope that she does give Farage some credit in private.

claig · 14/11/2016 17:52

'the flash mob attacks in Philadelphia have nothing to do with Trump.'

I didn't know that. Good point.

'I don't really get why you think the DM's coverage is anti Trump, claig'

No, I don't think the Daily Mail is particularly anti Trump. Katie Hopkins is pro Trump, but I haven't been reading the Mail for months so don't know what they have been saying. After he has won, some of the right wing media are bound to swing behind Trump because now they need to get on well with Trump. My guess is in the early days, they would have preferred Establishment Jeb Bush etc, but now they have no choice.

'I don't know how many of you saw last night's interview on CBS but Trump came across as more bewildered and overwhelmed than hard speaking. Whenever he was asked to say how he was going to implement any of his policies he was all flowery and "I'm not going to talk about that" or "We're not worrying about that right now". '

I saw it, he was fine, statesmanlike, trying to calm worries. Trump is not a details person, he has teams that will work out how to implement policies which is why it is pointless asking him how he will implement things.

'Until he got to abortion where he decided it would be a wonderful idea for women to have to go out of state'

I think he thinks it won't happen, so if it does he always falls back on states rights etc

'And, imo, it wasn't the Democrats that were the losers but the whole country.'

I think as the months pass, the people will find out the real level of corruption that was involved and then it won't look so bad as Trump begins to bring jobs back and turn things round again.

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Missswatch · 14/11/2016 17:55

copied from The Donald

Trump gives poor Puerto Rican man job and hope right off street.

Helps little girl with bone disease.

Gives kids helicopter rides.

Saves inner-city charity event. Pays a family's mortgage. Saves town's jobs.

Butler of 20 years says Trump is "Incredibly generous and entirely nice."

Former miss Wisconsin (hispanic) with terminal illness thanks Trump for sending letter of support and paying for child's education.

Ex-employee (hispanic woman) tells of Trump's true character and diversity of employees.

Gives plane ride to 200 stranded Marines in need.

Quietly helped a marine that was left to rot in Mexican prison for 214 days.

Gives child private jet ride to hospital for a special treatment after airline refuses.

Saves NYC Veteran's Day parade.

Hires more woman executives than men. As well as paying most the women more.

Hires black woman on the spot.

Saves NYC Central Park ice rink. Under budget and ahead of schedule taking no profit.

Cherry on top. Jesse Jackson praises Trump for his pushes for diversity.

FRESH PREZ OF PENNSYLVANIA AVE. FORESHADOWING!

Southallgirl · 14/11/2016 17:57

The man who stood in front of the Nazi style poster

Who is old enough to have seen a Nazi poster and make the connection? Only those up to no good. Iirc Farage used a foto of the Merkel line of people entering Europe. That was a factual illustration, not a put-together job.

claig · 14/11/2016 18:14

This was what Trump said on the CBS interview

"When I look at when I look at the world and you look at how various places are taking advantage of our country, and I say it, and I say it very proudly, it’s going to be America first. It’s not going to be what we’re doing—we, we’ve lost we’re losing this country. We’re losing this country."

That is what Trump is all about - America First. He has defeated and smashed the globalists and their world government plans with their TTIP, TPP trade deals and climate treaties that Obama got through without Congress's approval by using executive orders.

He said "We're losing this country", but he has stopped it completely. He has ended all of their plans. That is why he met with Farage - to signal to all of the world bleeders that sovereignty is back and that America First is back and that Brexit is on and that world government and globalism has been defeated.

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MakeItStopNeville · 14/11/2016 18:18

Misswatch, for all those charitable acts (and it would be completely unheard of for a US billionaire to not have some kind of philanthropic history. That would really make him a complete asshole), I can give you just as many links ore stories of people who he didn't pay after they had carried out the work and the number of businesses and contractors who now refuse to work with him. Of the treatment some of his Hispanic employees received whilst working at his golf course. The shoddy business practices that resulted in the closing of his casinos in AC. The list goes on and on.

Anyway, Claig, as interesting as your threads have been to read, they are not good for my blood pressure! I hope you are right and this all works out. I actually have some empathy for Trump supporters who are fed up and blame government and those "darned liberals". Less so for a few I know personally who are part and parcel of an inherently racist culture and have zero empathy or understanding for anyone who isn't a white or blue collar white. And particularly not for the kind of Trump fan like elected W Virginian official, Pamela Taylor, who posted on FB that she couldn't wait to not have a FLOTUS who looked like an ape in heels. That kind of shit is what Trump is seen to have endorsed, even when he didn't.

Missswatch · 14/11/2016 18:21

It goes to show Trump isn't the evil monster everyone is making him out to be. Liberals are insisting he is Hitler

claig · 14/11/2016 18:24

MakeItStopNeville, we will see in about 6 months to a year whether Trump is doing good for the country (and by extension the world). I think he will, but I may be wrong.

Yes, there are some racists who support Trump, but they will be disappointed by Trump, because Trump is not a racist as Rev. Jesse Jackson showed by praising him years ago for his support for African-Americans.

I hope to see you on threads in 6 months time and I hope everything will then be going fine.

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winterisnigh · 14/11/2016 19:06

use the time-tested, trained hand gestures and Blairite thumb manoeuvres any more, stand there with a straight face when the whole world knows they are puppets

This made me laugh - that fucking hand gesture Angry Grin

claig · 14/11/2016 19:11

Absolutely, winterisnigh, the hand gestures don't work for the spinners any more. We are onto it Grin

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winterisnigh · 14/11/2016 19:35

But for me, come autumn 2017 and the German nation goes to the polls, the author best be damn right. Theres a raft of loyal Germans, proud to be European, proud to have opened their arms to the needy over decades, whove always paid their own way, and taken nothing out of 'the system'. Who have paid their dues, over and over again for the sins of their fathers. An educated and informed voter whose concerns about policy and direction, political integrity, have prompted his free vote, as is his right to do, without impedance. A good man. (or woman of course mumsnet). Thats who the author will be calling a nazi. Damn right this is about to get worse.

^^ interesting point the way you framed it Chris

winterisnigh · 14/11/2016 20:10

Farage, cigar in mouth, a pint in each hand, is telling the world leader's entourage what the best way forward is and the inside baseball on Brussels and the EU

its been astonishing! How many feathers ruffled Grin

In actual fact, people also got spooked by the creeping authoritarianism of communistic thinking which prevailed during this time - the creeping equalisation of everything when quite clearly all things aren't equal, they got spooked by the erosion of free speech and personal liberties, the instantiation or mooting of incomprehensible laws (I'm thinking of Red Ed's proposed blasphemy law) as well as other pertinent things

100% spot on Four mummy, I still feel like we are emerging from this blanket put over us during the Blair years, it terrifies me now to think how much we were being repressed.

Boredofbrexit · 14/11/2016 21:38

Defensive article in The Economist - Comments absolutely slate them.
Covering Trump: The lessons for political journalists from the presidential election of 2016 www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2016/11/covering-trump-0?cid1=cust/ddnew/n/n/n/20161114n/owned/n/n/nwl/n/n/UK/8120296/email&etear=dailydispatch

claig · 14/11/2016 23:37

That was a very defensive article which got lost in stuff about basketball and rolling dice in an attempt to explain why they got it totally wrong. They seem to have ignored their "notebooks" with comments by real people because they didn't correspond to the polls that were being pumped out - the exact opposite of "believe it if you see it".

This comment sums up why they got it wrong best, and sums up all of the spin news reports on TV

"You "journalists" would have seen that possibility too, if you had been real journalists who record the public's opinion instead of trying to influence it. That's why you got it wrong on Brexit and wrong on Trump."

Spin is all about "trying to influence", that seems to be what they are paid to do.

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Spinflight · 15/11/2016 03:35

"Spin is all about "trying to influence", that seems to be what they are paid to do."

Take spin, add corruption and you have a powerful recipe for self delusion.

I'm not even talking about pure forms of corruption, I'm talking about the little corruptions that massage figures and alter rules so that spin can be applied. Which eventually leads to a bit more corruption.

I'm not even convinced it's always entirely the politicians fault, some wonk knows their master has an image problem and bad data on the way, presents it to the venal in a way which tones it down. Politician seizes on the news and the cycle continues.

Take jobs as an example, you're either in work or out of work right? Well no, take those in education out of it to massage the figures a little. Justify if on the basis that they aren't actually being paid. Then take SAHM out because they aren't actually looking for a job. Somewhere down the line they take people who've been out of work for over 6 months out, more because such massaging has worked in the past than with any justification. Little corruptions..

Meanwhile Jane Doe has been living in the same small town all her life. She hears the politicians slapping themselves on the back because they've reduced unemployment but she's never seen so many people out of work. She realises the stats are for the entire country so intuits that those damned Yankee's in the city must be doing really well. They aren't of course.

People, especially the older ones, are far better at seeing patterns and far brighter than all the government computers and census data combined yet the politicians rely on the data, which has been massaged to make them look better. A lot of the time I think they actually think they're telling the truth but it has no basis in fact on the ground, and anyone who complains is whingeing about their self entitlements and they're too venal and stupid to listen to their own people.

So complaints fall on deaf ears, or worse are berated, mocked and scorned. Oh Jane Doe is complaining, she should try being John Bronx in the city, but Jane Doe thinks that's where all the jobs are. So John Bronx must be lazy... The politician lives in the city so he only cares about John Bronx though in reality the politician has a nice island living lifestyle and would have a heart attack even thinking about being in the area where John Bronx lives.

So everyone is complaining and the politician needs to look good. Up steps the wonk to give them their latest data. Add some multiplier effects, election years, systemic shocks and one time events and you have a crisis of communications and confidence.

Course the media is following all this but they're from the city and know a bit about John Bronx. Their opinion pieces don't go down very well outside the city so decide they're going to resort more to fact based reporting hence they look at the stats....

cheminotte · 15/11/2016 07:32
Smile
Alfieisnoisy · 15/11/2016 13:57

who is old enough to have seen Nazi style posters

My elderly auntie for one...and she made the connection, but yeah....she is up to no good in making that connection.

Make no mistake, the equivilent of the Holocaust WILL happen again all the while people deny the rise of the far right in this world.

Farage would have been a high flyer in the Nazi party....or maybe not as he is a complete buffoon. He certain,y would NOT have acted to save anyone but himself though. Hateful man.

Southallgirl · 15/11/2016 14:46

the equivilent of the Holocaust WILL happen again all the while people deny the rise of the far right

Alfieisnoisy There will be no holocaust caused by the Right or the Far Right, but there may well be a war with the racists intolerant of everyone who have been allowed into Europe and N. America. No group is on a par with Islamists or their supporters, the latter stay in the background but there are many of them and they would not be averse to overturning Europe.

I see young lads of 14 sitting in the local park in the afternoons, huddled together over a laptop watching murderous IS videos and rejoicing.

Southallgirl · 15/11/2016 14:47

correction syntax up the spout. Meant to say intolerant racists have been allowed into Europe and N. America.

Southallgirl · 15/11/2016 14:55

Claig re that Economist article - I think you know my feelings about political journalists from my post a few pages back. Hopeless to a man, no intuition.

These are the same types people who don't quite believe that people's lives can change overnight. Well educated, well travelled, in the mix of things, access to all sorts of talking heads. If I got something so wrong in my job, I'd be out.

Southallgirl · 15/11/2016 15:04

Thanks, Spin. Daniel Hannan MEP is spot on. We are seeing young people brought up to be the centre of everything. They are total narcissists, and their parents have done them no favours.

*These kids are protesting because no one has ever said 'no' to them & they've been taught in school to react with tantrums."

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