Trump

[claig]

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

the point is America has to protect itself first and that may mean temporarily suspending immigration from all MENA countries. That is not islamaphobia, that is being sensible.

You keep telling yourselves that.
Good luck with it. You'll need it.

Surely the scariest thread on MN. Well done to those attempting to counter the dangerous views expressed. I wandered in whilst having a mooch and am also gobsmacked. I honestly think some in here are unhinged.

Everything we say is twisted and magnified.

White supremacists are supporting Trump. Fact. All Trumps supporters are white supremacists. Not Fact.

So all you pro Trump people, do you sit quietly and not criticise government policies you don't agree with? Really, because I have seen some of you on other threads speaking vehemently against Merkel in the past. And what if Trump does stuff that you strongly disagree with? Will you sit back and say, well that's ok, he won the election?

Democracy doesn't require people to shrug their shoulders and say well, that's that then. We still have the absolute right to criticise, to protest. Trying to shut us down? Well that is totalitarianism.

'Trying to shut us down? Well that is totalitarianism.'

No one is trying to shut anyone down. We have had thousands and thousands of posts on Trump over numerous threads because it is such an important subject and has changed the world direction, just like Brexit has done. Populists are defeating elites worldwide and it has changed policy. That is why we have had thousands of posts on it.

However, we have had abuse on these threads such as

"when fascist propaganda is smearing itself all over these boards you have to call it out."

which is a disgusting smear on Trump supporters and an attempt to shut down polite discussion on the biggest political upset and revolution in the United States for over 240 years and what it means for all of us in the UK and Europe and worldwide.

We are told

"Well done to those attempting to counter the dangerous views expressed. I wandered in whilst having a mooch and am also gobsmacked. I honestly think some in here are unhinged."

I assume the "unhinged" slur is not to the people bandying about accusations of fascism.

We have had thouands of posts, and some abuse and accusations of "dangerous views". Let's try and keep it civil and respectful so that we can discuss what this political earthquake means for everyone. Let's respect each other's different views without breaking Godwin's Law.

We are not on a Jon Snow Channel 4 broadcast, so we can discuss politics sensibly without exaggerated and hysterical spin.

For those who either gloss over inconvenient truths, or simply refuse to look past the headlines.

This was back in the late '90s when Trump opened up the Palm Beach Club. Being blocked by local councillors due to his acceptance of Blacks and Jews as members, he threatened to sue on the grounds of the councils discrimination. He won of course, and Palm Beach 'society' has never been the same since.....

Not as clear cut as you would like to make out (and the article you linked to is behind a paywall).

See Snopes: www.snopes.com/so-you-think-you-know-donald-trump/

But Trump didn't literally buy a "segregated club," as when he purchased Mar-a-Lago in 1985 it was a private estate and not a club. It wasn't until the 1990s that Trump sought to convert the property into a private club, whereupon the town council imposed a series of restrictions upon his plans. Those restrictions didn't require that Trump operate a segregated club; rather, Trump battled those restrictions, in part, by making the point that it was unseemly for the town to impose greater restrictions upon his plans to open an integrated club than they did upon existing segregated clubs.

"when fascist propaganda is smearing itself all over these boards you have to call it out."

which is a disgusting smear on Trump supporters

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck...

"Surely the scariest thread on MN. Well done to those attempting to counter the dangerous views expressed. I wandered in whilst having a mooch and am also gobsmacked. I honestly think some in here are unhinged."

Shirley, (which dangerous views are you refering to?) I think you can take comfort in knowing that threads like this, freedom of speech, open and free elections, will be a thing of the past by the end of this year.

This doesnt just apply to UK based agencies to use to monitor our every key press, ANY country or world wide organisation who wishes to go through your web browsing history, your phone texts, your email, your banking transactions, your medical records etc etc, can do so if they claim a 'possible' security risk to them also. No evidence required of course, but in the governments desperation to make their actions legal following the Snowden leaks, they have just passed a law that has exposed every UK citizen to the world.

The UK, leading the world in state surveillance. Makes you proud doesnt it.

www.ft.com/content/40d2ede4-adac-11e6-9cb3-bb8207902122

Lweji is a poster who typifies what I posted about. Fortunately, after Trump's win, she has mainly posted on other threads so there has been less abuse on this one.

Sorry...think that link was paywalled too. Heres another, but a cursory search on 'snoopers' charter will give you what you need.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/what-snoopers-charter-should-you-be-worried-heres-everything-you-need-know-1593046

Claig, journalists are supposed to be critical of politicians. especially those wielding massive power. Is there any media coverage that doesn't constitute a 100% glowing endorsement of Trump etc that you would accept? Or is holding him to account always "bullying"??

Southall girl: "Those screeching against an election that has not gone their way are really the bigots. Some on this thread too." I am not screeching. I am disagreeing. As Claig said "It is all about respect for people and their different opinions".........."or denying their right to hold different opinions, and respect for democracy."

Chris, I am also concerned about the snoopers charter. But I'm not going to be dragged into a discussion about it on here because that would be a diversion. It's almost like you don't want to talk about Trump or his policies.....

squishysquirmy, I expect the BBC and Channel 4 News to criticise Trump because they don't like him a they are part of the metropolitan elite and he has defeated the elites because he is a populist. However, what I don't like is their hysterical attempts to paint Trump as a fascist or white supremacist. I expect it of the Oxbridge teams because they have nothing else to con the people with and to stop the populist revolution defeating metropolitan elites. I would prefer it if the Oxbridge teams challenged Trump's political policies on anti globalisation, anti free trade deals, anti wars in the Middle East and if they tried to support the elites' warmongering, globalisation policies. But of course they are unable to do that because it is not popular, so they resort to personal attacks on Trump with endless reports of sieg heiling in an attempt to fool the people.

I still don't think all Trump supporters are fascists or racists. If I describe fringe elements as "fascists" or "white supremacists" and that doesn't apply to you, then I am probably not talking about you. I've not seen any Trump supporter on this thread actually speak up to condemn the extreme alt-right though. And the extreme alt-right are fascist white supremacists.

So Claig, Is there any media coverage that doesn't constitute a 100% glowing endorsement of Trump etc that you would accept?

'I've not seen any Trump supporter on this thread actually speak up to condemn the extreme alt-right though.'

Don't you have enough respect for other posters to realise that it goes without saying that they condemn sieg heiling fascists and racists?

The BBC are conspicuously not calling Donald Trump a fascist. It's quite clear from his words and behaviour.

' Is there any media coverage that doesn't constitute a 100% glowing endorsement of Trump etc that you would accept?'

Any media that challenges his anti war policies, his pro peace policies with Russia, his anti globalisation policies etc, but not Oxbridge team media that tries to smear Trump or Trump supporters as racist, sieg heiling fascists in an attempt to fool the people.

I don't know who anyone on here is. I could be Hillary Clinton for all you know, so no I am making no assumptions about the beliefs of posters on here.

*"Is there any media coverage that doesn't constitute a 100% glowing endorsement of Trump etc that you would accept?'

Any media that challenges his anti war policies, his pro peace policies with Russia, his anti globalisation policies etc,"*

I will believe that when I see it....

'so no I am making no assumptions about the beliefs of posters on here.'

Well, I think if you read the thousands and thousands of posts on here about Trump, good humoured ones even after all manner of smears and slurs and accusations of trollery and insults about stupidity and all the rest, then you should be able to come to the conclusion that there are no sieh heiling fascists posting and you can respect the difference of opinion as most other good natured posters have done even when subjected to smears and insults.

Because when myself and others do try and criticise his actual policies what there is of them you don't engage with us.
You either:
-Bang on about Oxbridge establishment elite journalist bias.
-engage in bizzarre whataboutery (Isis! Blair! Emails! Guantanamo!) to divert the conversation
-Call us Blairites
-Complain that I've called you nasty names. When I haven't.

Claig, I have seen you post a lot on heredon't think you're a fascist at all. I think you are willing to support a fascist, but only because you don't realise what he is.
I have respect for your sense of humour and politeness, but I think you are very very wrong about the men you worship.

I don't think Trump himself is a white supremacist, but you have to ask why he is so appealing to far right groups? He seems happy to pick up their votes whilst accepting no responsibility for the ugly ramifications.

Lweji is a poster who typifies what I posted about. Fortunately, after Trump's win, she has mainly posted on other threads so there has been less abuse on this one.

Challenging your opinions is abuse?
That is typical of a fascist mindset, btw.
I don't recall calling anyone fascist, actually. But Trump's campaign had been not too dissimilar to other totalitarian and populist (in the bad sense) leaders.

I mostly feel sorry for you Trump supporters. For many reasons.

Does your test for media bias go something like this?

"Does this article reinforce my strongly held opinion?"
:If yes, keep on beleiveing it more convinced than ever!
:If no, it's a smear by the liberal Oxbridge Elite!"