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Trump

1005 replies

claig · 12/11/2016 08:30

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

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Thread gallery
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Kaija · 23/11/2016 00:16

Can't wait for Claig's Front National threads. Something to look forward to for 2017.

claig · 23/11/2016 00:18

Spin has corroded trust in teh elites. Their teams only have spin, but it is counterproductive because everyone can spot it.

That is why the thought of Blair returning is laughable, because he is all about spin, and the elites can't fool the people any more. We're wise to it now. The world has changed beyond recognition - a populist rebellion worldwide has brought the elites low and all they have and ever had was spin and that doesn't work any more.

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claig · 23/11/2016 00:20

'Can't wait for Claig's Front National threads'

I speak French, but I won't be able to know what is going on in France because we don't have a CNN or Fox News on our TV to see what the candidates all say, so we only have the BBC and that is spin, so I won't know what is going on.

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Kaija · 23/11/2016 00:22

Don't worry, you'll still have the Daily Mail and I'm sure someone will keep you updated.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 00:23

You're right Kaija.
This January is going to be the worst January ever... I think that some of the Trump coverage is going to die down a bit in the news over the holidays (a bit like the Brexit stuff did over the Olympics) while everyone gets distracted by slushy adverts and food. Then reality's going to smash us all in the face again after the new year.

claig · 23/11/2016 00:24

The Daily Mail doesn't do much international politics. Not good enough for that.

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squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 00:26

I'm sure you wont let the lack of information get in the way of an insanely strong opinion Claig.

Kaija · 23/11/2016 00:27

Sounds like you're really stuck there, Claig.

claig · 23/11/2016 00:28

No, I base my opinions on facts. I knew Trump would win because I watched the rallies and listened to what he said and watched the Establishment opponents and realised it was exactly the same as here.

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Pallisers · 23/11/2016 00:30

Yes, but because of the electoral college system, Trump concentrated on key states in the rust belt. If it was a majority vote system, then Trump would have spent more time in the most populous state, California. Trump won in the system as it is. He may also have won under a different system, we don't know.

Yes he did win the system as it is. Geared toward certain sections of society - hint - not the poor or uneducated. Why do you still insist this is a populist rising against 'the elites". Don't bother answering. 0

Have you answered my post about why you voted for Blair - or Bliar as you now call him - and why your thought process is any different from your vote for Trump.

Oh sorry - forgot - you don't have a vote for Trump. For one lovely moment I am so glad he is anti-immigration

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 00:33

Me too! I love Facts. Facty facty facts. FactyMcFactface facty facts.
I'm off to dream up facty facts. Night all!

claig · 23/11/2016 00:37

'Why do you still insist this is a populist rising against 'the elites'

Because that is what it is which is why I knew that Trump would win. Even the media teams now say it is

"Donald Trump's election victory hailed as 'defeat of the establishment elite part 2'

DONALD Trump’s sensational victory in the American Presidential election has been hailed as a "defeat of the establishment".

www.express.co.uk/news/world/730544/Donald-Trump-election-victory-US-election

'Have you answered my post about why you voted for Blair - or Bliar as you now call him - and why your thought process is any different from your vote for Trump.'

Because at the time, Blair represented a new start, a change from the sleaze of 18 years of Tory rule. I was with teh zeitgeist then as part of the Blair landslide, and am with the populist zeitgesit now. Blair was Establishment, Oxbridge, PPE etc the same as all the rest, but in those days, people had faith in the Establishment, there was nothing else, and things weren't that bad. But now, everything has changed, people have lost trust in the media and the elites and the spinners and the liars, which is why Trump could only win now in what is a real revolution that happens hardly ever.

Trump says "he is part of a movement" and it is global, it is like Brexit and it will now sweep the elites out acroos much of Europe. It is exactly the same here as in America. The only difference is we don't have a Trump.

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claig · 23/11/2016 00:39

Night, squishysquirmy. If you like facts, this thread is full of them Wink

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Spinflight · 23/11/2016 00:40

Wow, not sure I belong in a debate of this intellectual rigour!

Trump is Hitler's secret love child and claig a fascist three eyed frog with halitosis.

There you go, argument won. :D

The reason the media is throwing so much mud, especially in Sessions direction is rather simple. As I've previously mentioned it is Congress that is responsible for immigration. Trouble is there are already myriad laws against illegal immigration, it is just that Obama chose not to enforce them. Hence in Sessions they see an Attorney General who is likely to uphold the current law rather than ignoring it.

This includes being able to withhold Federal funding from cities or towns which shelter illegals, the so called safe spaces. Oddly these are almost uniformly Democrat controlled.

As Nigel would put it, the more flak you get the closer to the target you are.

Also Bannon is rather misunderstood. Whilst there are always going to be numpties who will attack anyone like a wave of zombies muttering fascist his philosophy, and the message his news outlets seek to convey is that the West is in the midst of a war against radical Islam. Destroying the elites and governments who hush this up is his primary goal in life.

Bear in mind that Americans look in horror at the state of Sweden and ourselves in particular. The Swedish rape crisis, Rotherham, Cologne sex attacks, Charlie Hebdo, and all the other numerous terrorist atrocities. It's difficult to stress how seriously they take this, even to the point of ex Army officers wondering why we don't raze Muslim neighbourhoods with heavy artillery. People forget how willing Americans are to defend their faith.

In constantly playing footage of a completely unconnected rally they are trying to undermine the so called alt right, though frankly they are several years too late. They concentrated on David Duke during the campaign claiming his popularity was increasing and that he could get elected to the Senate. In the end he came 7th..

Also, a bit technical but here's a good explanation of why Europe's banks are in serious trouble..

www.cobdencentre.org/2016/11/the-european-banking-can-nears-the-end-of-the-road/

Despite dodgy accounting they still had to rig the actual stress tests.

Why is this important? Well I don't get the impression that the Donald is a fan of the EU and his chief strategist is certainly of the impression that EU governments have been suppressing news stories of Muslim extremism for some years. I doubt Farage independently came up with his monumental pisstake about being their ambassador to the EU, simple fact is he can't be as he isn't an American citizen. Bannon believes that the Judeo Christian values were applied by governments and corporations in the bygone days ( slightly rose tinted in my view but a somewhat valid point) and basically that the current holders of high level positions are cretins of the highest order who have betrayed their populations. Therefore he takes a Leninist approach, that these institutions have to be destroyed.

Which if you are one of the very numerous European governments which lined up to denounce Trump and who are likely to be facing yet more economic woes in the near future is rather bad news.

I find it pretty likely that they'll turn their resources about face to covertly supporting Wilders and Le Pen and frankly any other measures which they feel will topple the established order in Europe.

Buckle your seatbelts...

claig · 23/11/2016 00:47

Yes, I think they have decided that the EU is not to America's interest, particularly as Hollande etc lecture Trump about not being able to pull out of the climate deal etc

"US climate commitment 'irreversible', Francois Hollande warns Donald Trump"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/19/us-climate-commitment-irreversible-francois-hollande-warns-donal/

They are all busy "warning" Trump, which is why Trump will probably not play ball with them.

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claig · 23/11/2016 00:53

"Europe WHO? Trump's snub to Brussels as he names Britain but NOT the EU among key allies

DONALD TRUMP delivered a major snub to the beleaguered European Union today in a further sign of the marginal role Brussels can expect to play in his foreign policy plans.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/733103/Donald-Trump-US-President-elect-snub-EU-UK-Russia-key-global-allies

The EU is facing its own populist rebellions and Trump won't help the EU.

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Spinflight · 23/11/2016 00:59

Also bear in mind that his infrastructure plans mean issuing more debt.

So who is going to buy it? Well the US rarely struggles but with China and Saudi increasingly selling off the debt they own this basically leaves Europe.

Luckily for Trump appetite within Europe for European debt isn't exactly strong. The net effect would be effectively sucking dollars out of the EU, and tax amnestying others, to the detriment of the ECB's efforts to reflate.

claig · 23/11/2016 01:07

Trump is America First, and he will want Germany to do all the heavy lifting in the EU and in teh end Germany won't be able to becaue its people will have enough of it, so the EU is in a pickle.

"Greece, Seeking Dose of Stability, Is Rattled by Trump’s Win
...
Indeed, Mr. Trump has urged Europe to take care of its own problems, and he suggested during the height of the Greek crisis that the United States should not get involved.

“I would definitely stay back,” he said in an interview last year with Fox Business Network. “Germany is very powerful and strong. I’d let Germany handle it.”

“We have enough problems,” he said, adding that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia could ride in “to save the day if Germany doesn’t.”
...
While the eurozone has held together despite Greece’s troubles, Mr. Trump has also hinted that he sees the shared currency as a potential threat. “Don’t forget the whole euro situation was created to compete against the United States,” he said in the Fox Business interview. “This was all set up to hurt the United States.”

www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/world/europe/greece-trump-debt-relief.html?_r=0

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Spinflight · 23/11/2016 01:16

"“This was all set up to hurt the United States.”"

He's quite right, it was.

Also his comments on the EU not pulling their weight is merely a realisation that Europe has been taking a free ride whilst also edging away from the alliance. Why else would they seek an autonomous GPS system if not to operate against Washington's wishes?

Note that all of Trump's stimulus is direct into the real economy, not funny money that only helps prop up banks. Spending on defence means Americans retain their jobs building ships and planes, infrastructure means construction companies, steel makers and the like expand and take employees on.

Of course funny money devalues the actual money, so in a falling market the best thing you could do with it is put it into the worlds reserve currency, the US $.

Rather amusingly the ECB will be helping Trump, and accelerating their own demise at the same time. The BoJ too to a lesser extent.

claig · 23/11/2016 01:21

'Why else would they seek an autonomous GPS system if not to operate against Washington's wishes?'

Absolutely. He also says about Ukraine, let Germany deal with it, they are closer, why should America do it all?

'Note that all of Trump's stimulus is direct into the real economy, not funny money that only helps prop up banks'

Yes, real jobs, not bailing out bankers.

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Chris1234567890 · 23/11/2016 02:04

“Don’t forget the whole euro situation was created to compete against the United States,” he said in the Fox Business interview. “This was all set up to hurt the United States.”

Absolutely agree with that one too Claig. (Shame youve had an onslaught of unfounded goady posts today....if only theyd read the thread....or fact checked...or spoke to the Archbishop of Canterbury Hmm

Spinflight · 23/11/2016 02:09

On that note another of Bannon's bugbears is that no-one was ever prosecuted for the massive bailouts needed. Now this is unsurprising given the wikileaks revelations however I find it rather difficult to believe that a bank telling the newly elected government who to have in their cabinet isn't a clear case of corruption and even fraud.

Trump may say he isn't going after Hillary but frankly it isn't his decision. I'm not sure the rest of his party agrees either and they have the power to investigate and bring charges, I think he might simply be giving Obama another distasteful sandwich... He is now less likely to pardon her, though that in itself is an admission of guilt so not an easy one for either of them.

It could also be that he'll focus on her backers, hell it isn't as though you'd have to chuck a stick far to hit a bought politician in Washington. Possibly he reasons that you take out the puppet master, not the one dangling from his strings.

Meanwhile Qatar has decided to buy several billion $s worth of jets. 72 of them which is an insanely large number for such a small state. Think they might be trying to mend fences?

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/11/2016 07:30

Claig, I am a little puzzled - how is it you can follow what goes on in the States, but you won't be able to follow what is going on in France?

claig · 23/11/2016 08:28

Because in the UK we have lots of English language US stations available e.g Fox, MSNBC, CNN etc so we are able to follow what is really going on and we don't have to rely on just the BBC, which is spin. If I pnly had access to the BBC, then I would have thought that Hillary would win and that Trump was a racist, because that is what the teams on the BBC said.

For France, we don't have access to different French TV channels, so it is difficult to know what is really going on as we only have the BBC.

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/11/2016 08:40

I can help with that :) french news links

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