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Trump

1005 replies

claig · 12/11/2016 08:30

Another Trump thread for those who want to discuss what it all means

Article from another thread

"History Tells Us What Will Happen Next With Brexit And Trump"

www.huffingtonpost.com/tobias-stone/history-tells-us-what-will-brexit-trump_b_11179774.html?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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claig · 23/11/2016 08:45

Thanks, OhYouBadBadKitten, those are useful links. BFM TV is a serious news channel, so I will look into it.

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/11/2016 09:06

cool.

fourmummy · 23/11/2016 10:23

I have only skimmed the thread but one thing caught my eye - Blair. The people on this thread who don't understand the import of Blair must live in a different country. Blair is one of the most hated politicians bar none. I don't know a single person who has anything normal (not even 'good') to say about him and I have heard extremely sensible professionals state that if we still had capital punishment, they'd be the in the front row. What we are seeing now - the whole thing about mistrust of authority, a rising up of the people against institutionalised lying, an alternative narrative against MSM, all started with Blair. Ordinary people are still traumatised by his years in power (I include myself in that number). I got rid of my TV and stopped reading MSM because of Blair. I heard people cheer when it was reported that he is consolidating his orgnaisation and moving 'somewhere close to Westminster' to help out with Bremain (with Richard Branson's help, of course) because we all now know that Brexit will definitely happen. People who are dismissing Blair do not live in the UK.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/11/2016 10:31

People aren't dismissing Blair, we think it's bizarre that we are being accused of being Blairites. I marched against him many times. I have no idea why people on this thread seem to think that the world splits into those who follow Trump and those who follow Blair.

fourmummy · 23/11/2016 10:50

It's not a split between Blair and Trump. It's a split between pre-Blair and post-Blair.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 11:38

Spinflight, I don't think that "claig is a fascist three eyed frog with halitosis".
I don't know her and she may well be perfectly lovely in real life.
I do think that she is very wrong about some incredibly important issues, and makes poorly constructed arguments in the defence of an utterly indefencible man.
She has always come across in her many posts as someone with a thick skin and a good sense of humour however, so I assumed the odd glib comment wouldn't offend her.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 11:40

fourmummy - I am British, I think that Blair is an odious man, but I don't think that every single thing that has gone wrong for anyone since the 90's is his fault. Nothing is that simple. I was objecting to the bizarre "blairite" accusations, and confused because I thought this was a thread to discuss Trump.

Spinflight · 23/11/2016 12:07

"I do think that she is very wrong about some incredibly important issues, and makes poorly constructed arguments in the defence of an utterly indefencible man."

I'm not going to read back through it see who said what but all I saw was pages of personal abuse. Thinking that someone has a thick skin is no excuse, nor is offering no argument except name calling.

Then again I find it difficult to entirely blame you when the MSM resorts to similar tactics. If they can't provide coherent arguments then we can't really expect their readership to unless they undertake independent research, which is rare. The poverty of debate in the entire election cycle was shocking and policy rarely discussed.

I think I understand the references to blair, it isn't one of philosophy or policy but a comparison of value signal and smear. Of course it almost seems ironic now that Blair's constantly value signalling has been laughed out of town by his callous actions.

And don't forget that Blair had quite an effect across the pond. The Republicans roundly blamed him for the dodgy dossiers etc, for taking the lead with the tail wagging the dog. Doubt they'll make that mistake again.

It's one reason why Nigel goes down so well over there.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 12:18

I must have missed the pages of personal abuse. Calling someone out on the things they say is not personal abuse, even if it does very bluntly.
And as for the mainstream media smears... I don't need to read/watch the msm to know that Trump is a very dangerous, unpleasant man. I can get that from his twitter account. Unless the elites have somehow managed apply magic spin there?

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 12:18

^ is done very bluntly, that should read.

GlassCircles · 23/11/2016 13:16

Thinking that someone has a thick skin is no excuse, nor is offering no argument except name calling. Then again I find it difficult to entirely blame you when the MSM resorts to similar tactics.

So Trump's arguments are polite, kind and reasonable, and free from personal slurs and abuse of any kind? Just jaw dropping. But obviously his personal style is just dandy, since he's just a lovable rogue who's putting the world in order.

Spinflight · 23/11/2016 13:18

Unless you think one of us is the Donald.... I'm confused.

Kaija · 23/11/2016 14:03

And here's the anti-elite people's champion in action. 47% of tax cuts to be given to the wealthiest 1%:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/23/trump-tax-plan-cuts-wealthy-low-income-inequality?utmsource=dlvr.it&utmm_medium=twitter

OhYouBadBadKitten · 23/11/2016 14:12

I do remember watching all three debates during the election plus the primary debates. Yes, you are right the attempted debates were terribly poor. Slander, name calling, vicious attacks. And almost all of that from Trump. What a fine example he set all of his followers.

Spinflight · 23/11/2016 14:33

If there has been a criticism of Trump's policies on these threads that didn't amount to stomping of feet, wails of angst and name calling then I'm not convinced I've seen it...

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:08

All right, to get back to discussing "Trump, and what it all means",
Who else is deeply concerned about the conflict of interest with his business interests? Just one example. It is a very petty issue, but very revealing of his attitude: He is already trying to drag up an old argument about the view from one of his golf courses (he compared wind farms to the lockerbie disaster once) by spending most of a meeting persuading Farage to lobby against them. Which also suggests that he misunderstands the amount of influence Farage has with the Scottish government.
I am sure this is not the last conflict of interest we'll see, especially as he is refusing to put his business concerns into a proper blind trust.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:14

His attitude to the media is deeply chilling as well. The quotes from his meeting with the press which Claig posted several times earlier in the thread are deeply un-professional.
He has shown again and again during his campaign that he regards any criticism - even from a Republican news outlet like Fox - as a personal attack and evidence of a biased, lying media conspiracy.
Good journalism is supposed to be critical of those wielding power. It is not supposed to be a mouthpiece for the president, which is what Trump expects it to be.

takesnoprisoners · 23/11/2016 15:15

No matter what he does, there will be a conflict of interest. He is the President of the USA. He is a Billionaire with wide reaching investments. There is no way that he can function with any 'traditional' set up as far as his wealth his concerned. They have to come up with something new.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:18

In case you missed it spinflight:

Kaija' post half an hour before yours: And here's the anti-elite people's champion in action. 47% of tax cuts to be given to the wealthiest 1%
Very concise, accurate criticism of Trump's policys without any stomping of feet, wails of angst or name calling

InformalRoman · 23/11/2016 15:19

Didn't The Donald get laughed out of Holyrood when he challenged the Scottish Government over wind farms the last time?

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:21

takesnoprisoners: It may be an unprecedented situation, but he doesn't seem to be making any attempt to even pretend that he won't use political power to further his business concerns.

takesnoprisoners · 23/11/2016 15:21

The media IS a mouthpiece to the current president. There is no denying that the media has not been fair in its coverage of the election. It has been severely anti-trump. There are journalists who came on national Tv and said "fuck being neutral. I hate Trump and will do everything to stop him." He owes media no respect. They did not earn it.
When the FBI director reopened the investigation right before the election, CNN refused to air any of that news and were still strong on being anti-Trump. The main stream media created Breitbart and other sites that they hate and villify today. Had they been fair, things could have been different.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:22

InformalRoman: Yes, that's possibly why he has such a bee in a bonnet about it now. He certainly comes across as a man who holds a grudge.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:27

takesnoprisoners: There has been plenty of msm criticism of Obama over the last 8 years. Hillary too. If the accusations against Trump from the msm have seemed worse, do you think it might be because there is worse material?
Yes, several journalists (not all) did admit that they could no longer be neutral about Trump. That is because they were frightened by him and his support - not because he is smashing a corrupt establishment (he epitomises the corrupt elite) but because he is a fucking terrifying man.

squishysquirmy · 23/11/2016 15:30

What about the way the alt-right have actively pushed conspiracy theories to discredit his opponents?

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