Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

[claig]

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

flowers you're right, they won't do a damn thing on any substantive issues.

sailawaywithme, I think that whether or not one sees Corbyn as a blast from the past, or a harbinger of the future depends very much on your generation. DH is older than me, and became politically active in the late 80s. He is lukewarm on Corbyn, fearing a return to the divisions of the past, giving way to years of neo-Thatcherism. I came of age in the early 2000s, so for me the bogey is Blair, not Thatcher. Very many of Corbyn's supporters are under 35, and for them he represents something new and exciting after years of centrist orthodoxy.

flowersandsunshine, I disagree that there has been 'zero action on actual issues that affect the 99%'. Corbyn has achieved significant victories on issues such as tax credit and disability benefit cuts. Thousands of very poor people are significantly better off as a result of his leadership. Under Corbyn's leadership, we have avoided another bloody intervention in the middle east, and issues of international law and human rights have been placed centre stage. Furthermore, he has massively grown the party membership, as well as leading Labour to victory in the London mayoral race, as well as by-elections.

What's there not to like?

Oh, and I have never understood why people get upset about politicians having received good educations. Would you prefer them to be badly educated? I speak as someone who went to a rather shabby comprehensive.

sailawaywithme - the OP is not a fool, she's a shrewd Tory. She's never hidden the fact she's right-wing - currently UKIP.'

flowersandsunshine, I am a floating voter like millions of others. I have no party allegiance, unlike you. I voted Blair in 1997, then Tory, then UKIP when I finally had enough of Cameron and the team of modernising spinners, who are exactly the same as the Blairites.

'Labour leadership candidate as popular with Ukip voters as Labour voters, Survation finds, and is top in London, according to separate poll''

Like lots of other voters, unlike you, I like Corbyn because he offers a different politics to the Blairite and Cameron spinners. The Etsbalishment is terrified of Corbyn and are desperate to stop him because he won't do as they tell him, unlike the Blairites etc. When the Establishment come knocking and tell Corbyn they have a war for him to join in with or a regime that needs toppling, Corbyn won't do it, he won't go along, and that is why they want Corbyn not to get in.

I don't agree with all of Corbyn's policies and think that McDonnell's talk of "every country will have open borders by the end of the century" is bonkers. I don't agree with Corbyn on climate change, I agree with Corbyn's excellent brother, Dr Piers Corbyn, and Piers says he discusses climate change with Corbyn over Christmas dinner, so maybe Corbyn understands what it is really all about. But you can't have everything in politics, I am happy to ignore the things that I disagree with Corbyn about if he comes up with good policies on housing, education, health, care for the elderly etc.

I, like millions of other non-Labour voters, would never vote for Hillary Benn, Chuka Umunna, Angela Eagle and Owen Smith, but I would vote for Corbyn if he has the courage to implement a different politics and agenda.

The Labour 172 are arrogant and think they are more popular than Corbyn. They aren't, among Labour members, Corbyn is more popular, and among the public and non-Labour voters, Corbyn is more popular.

Corbyn is a breath of fresh air in our politics, he has the Establishment and their stooges terrified. If I wanted Labour to be "destroyed as a political force" then I wouldn't be supporting the energy and dynamism and new thinking injected into our politics by Corbyn and the Corbynistas. Instead I would support the tired old Labour spinners like Alastair Campbell, Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Ed Miliband, Angela Eagle, Hillary Benn and all the rest of the Establishment spinners.

Tax credit & disability benefit: the Lords & Tory backbenchers are the ones who made govt U-turn. I struggle to give Labour any credit.

Claig has a mega chip on shoulder towards anyone with privilege, and trumpets anyone who hassles the privileged. Claig wants to see those in power get hurt -- maybe it's a bonus if the person who causes the chaos is also quite privileged (Farage, Trump, etc.)

Claig, did you read the links I posted? The up-to-date ones, not yours from a year ago? Corbyn is not popular with the general public, he is not popular with union members.

'Labour leadership candidate as popular with Ukip voters as Labour voters, Survation finds, and is top in London, according to separate poll''

Not at all. I think Jacob Rees-Mogg, Old Etonian and Oxbridge, is fantastic, a real breath of fresh air, because he has the courage to speak his own mind and articulate common sense. I vote for common sense politics, which happened to be Corbyn's slogan, copied from UKIP "straight talking common sense".

What I am against is puppets who are propelled into office because they do as they are told. Corbyn isn't one of them, aand nor are Trump, Farage and Rees-Mogg.

Corbyn's policy guy is Seumas Milne, PPE Oxford. Great and he has the courage to think differently and not do as he is told.

'The up-to-date ones, not yours from a year ago? Corbyn is not popular with the general public, he is not popular with union members.'

RiverTam, the polls are wrong as we know. They are probably often fixed by the Esatblishment and their mates. On the eve of the Referendum, the Establishment told us that they were ten points ahead of the people in the polls and the markets believed the Establishment and their polls, and yet the people won.

The reason Corbyn is losing support in the country is because he has had a relentless campaign by the media, the BBC, the Establishment stooges and his own MPs against him from teh time he got in. That has an effect on the public. Even I am getting fed up of Corbyn's weakness in not sacking them. He finally did it, but he should have done it ages ago. In reality, despite the Establishment's tricks and tears about bullying from Corbyn supporters, Corbyn will probably beat the Establishment opponents and if he then does mandatory re-selection, Establishment candidates will probably be removed, and then Corbyn won't have to put up with his own MPs on TV every night telling the public how useless Corbyn is, and then Corbyn will climb in the polls.

'With their crackdown on party democracy, Labour’s reformers have become entrenched'
...
"The NEC have of course now suspended CLP meetings until the campaign is over, ostensibly to ensure the safety of all concerned. I suspect there’s more to it.

For all the evident bad blood, if members cannot sit in the same room with each other without resorting to violence then the party is finished anyway.

It does have the happy side effect for some of guaranteeing none of the CLPs can vote no confidence in their MP.

The decision was taken in an NEC session which contained another vote Robert Peston compared to ‘gerrymandering‘ by Corbyn’s opponents. That vote was not on the agenda and was taken after Corbyn and a couple of his supporters had left, resulting in party members who had joined in the last six months being ineligible to vote in the leadership election."

leftfootforward.org/2016/07/with-their-crackdown-on-party-democracy-labours-reformers-have-become-entrenched/

'none of the CLPs can vote no confidence in their MP'

''none of the CLPs can vote no confidence in their MP''

Corbyn is more popular than them. The whole country is seeing how they operate

'another vote Robert Peston compared to ‘gerrymandering‘ by Corbyn’s opponents'

Non-Labour voters, who admire Corbyn's guts in standing up to their bullying, gerrymandering and constant denigration on the BBC and in the media, are seeing how little they respect democracy and the will of their own members. It is an unedifying sight and millions of non-Labour voters as well as Labour voters and members are hoping that Corbyn beats them and delivers a victory for democracy even if the Establishment doesn't want Corbyn.

Angela Eagle's CLP was about to meet to discuss deselecting her. The ban on CLP meetings might just possibly have something to do with that?

Stalin would be proud of the decisions being taken by the Party against its supporters over the last couple of days. & people say Corbyn is too left-wing!

Even the Conservatives only have a 3-month wait before being able to vote.

& the official Labour Party line now over "you will be eligible to vote in leadership elections" is "it doesn't say which elections"

Democracy, eh?

LowDudgeon, you are spot on.

The Daily Mirror has an article about the Labour party suspending local party meetings until the leadership contest ends. The article doesn't really shine a light on it, but the comments underneath by readers and Labour supporters and possibly members, are eye-opening about it. The Establishment think the people are stupid, but they aren't.

'the official Labour Party line now over "you will be eligible to vote in leadership elections" is "it doesn't say which elections"'

How unedifying to see these MPs scratching around for any obscure rule and asking for legal advice on the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law in their attempt to find some way to stop Corbyn.

"Rules say no", "computer says no", "Establishment says no"

About time people start to look towards an anti establishment leader.
There will be so many scared to death now, if he can deliver our nation may be strong again, rather than being run by the elite who don't give a shit.
They will do their best and worst to discredit Corbyn because he scares them so much.
I'm actually interested in politics again now

Me too, gillybeanz.

RiverTam, I think that you are mistaken. Corbyn is held in high regard by people of all party affiliations and none. Yesterday, I wore my Jeremy Corbyn campaign t-shirt out in a very 'naice' area of south west London. Loads of people came up me - some Corbyn fans, but more often bemused Tories who wanted to chat. Even the ones who were not and never had been Labour supporters said that they liked Corbyn because he did things differently, more honestly, etc than other politicians. Ok, so that's rather anecdotal, but I found the experience rather cheering nonetheless.

How long does it take for an "anti-establishment" leader to join the establishment. 1 day after taking office? 2 yrs? Did Hugo Chavez stay anti-establishment to the end? Robert Mugabe is still marketing himself as anti-establishment.

Ah, so you're of Claig's way of thinking that all polls are bollocks? Ok. Good to know.

Do you think that those who don't rate Corbyn might just simply ignore you and your T shirt? I mean, how many people did you cross paths with who didn't come up to you?

FWIW, I don't tend to post my views on Corbyn on social media because I can't be bothered with the Corbynistas laying in to me. I have a couple of very vocal ones on my FB (though one has gone very silent in recent days) and loads of politically engaged Labour friends who are saying nothing. Just because we're silent doesn't mean we agree with you.

Anyway, over and out. Debating with someone (the OP, I mean) who salivates over that racist, xenophobic facist Farage is kind of pointless.

Labour is dead now, so it's all a bit irrelevant now anyway.

Shame, it was good once.

claig - you make the classic error of assuming that Labour either = Corbynites OR Blairites. In reality, most Labour MPs and supporters are neither.

LazyCake - thanks for age info - that was my guess. It would explain why so many young Corbynites use Blairite as a kind of all-purpose swear word - too young to remember Thatcher, they naively imagine Blair is as bad as it gets!

Since pollsters failed to predict the 2015 general election result, lots of people much smarter than me have been saying that they're no longer up to the job.

In the referendum, the decisive votes were cast by people who had previously been politically disengaged. My Mum worked as a poll clerk and told me that many of the people coming in had never been in a polling station before (another anecdote - sorry!) Anyway, the point is, pollsters do not yet have these people on their lists, so they must now play catch up, try to work out what they will do next, who they will support...

Ps. I'm not silly enough to think that my T-shirt experience was a bellweather, but it put a smile on my face anyway.

Article by the legendary socialist and funniest person in Britain, Mark Steel.

"Jeremy Corbyn's supporters are so dangerous they took over the Labour Party before they were even born

If you were cynical you might wonder if, despite their ability to reach out to people, Corbyn’s opponents feel they’d be unlikely to beat him in a straight vote of members

Angela Eagle launched her campaign to be Labour leader, she said, to bring peace to the Labour Party, just as she voted for war to bring peace to Iraq. If she ever sits next to you on a park bench and says “I’ve come here for some peace and quiet” – RUN.

Eagle claims that she could win a general election – and to be fair she might have a slight chance, as long as she’s allowed to keep all the other parties off the ballot paper. She does have a gift for explaining her ideas, after all. Asked on the Today programme why she voted for the Iraq war, she said “I’m a Northern working class girl who understands the nuances of modern life.”
...
The answer to Labour’s problems is to keep changing the rules. If you were cynical you might wonder if, despite their ability to reach out to people, Corbyn’s opponents feel they’d be unlikely to beat him in a straight vote of members, so their strategy is to make sure the vote isn’t straight. For example, they’re determined to reach out to more people, by scrapping the rule allowing supporters to vote if they register for three pounds, and raising the registration fee to £25.
...
Tomorrow they’ll announce ‘We’ve decided voting for Corbyn is an Olympic sport, so anyone voting for him has to have a drugs test, and supply a urine sample to the NEC. Otherwise they will be barred from the election, because we take cheating very seriously.”

A Labour donor will go to the High Court to argue that Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters can only make speeches in Norwegian. Owen Smith will announce he’s playing his joker which means his votes count double.

...
But you have to feel for them because they’ve been trained, over 20 years or more, to believe opposition to the rule of wealth, the demands of big business and the engagement in unnecessary wars belongs only to a handful of outdated idiots. So if hundreds of thousands join Labour to challenge that idea, or if Labour loses almost every seat in Scotland to a party that disagrees, or millions of Americans support a radical socialist, they can’t adjust. It’s not their beliefs that need amending – reality must be wrong.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyns-supporters-are-so-dangerous-they-took-over-labour-before-they-were-even-born-a7136711.html

Mark Steel has a brilliant way of expressing truths that are sometimes hidden.

The battle of Corbyn versus the 172 is one of the most defining political battles for the entire country we have yet seen (for non-Labour voters too). It is the last attempt of the Establishment to wrest control of a major political party from its members (the people). If they fail and Corbyn wins again, it will be a historic defeat for the Establishment and a victory for the likes of the excellent and decent Mark Steel and the people.

Labour either = Corbynites OR Blairites. In reality, most Labour MPs and supporters are neither. Agreed, but that doesn't alter the fact that 60% of members threw their support behind Corbyn last year, and are likely to do so again. DS and DBIL are councillors in the constituency of one of the leading rebels, they spend almost every weekend delivering leaflets, doing surgeries - proper grassroots stuff. DBIL managed to persuade his CLP to call off a vote against their MP, saying that they needed to be getting on with their work of housing people etc, rather than indulging in internecine conflict. Moderate, sensible. However, he WILL be voting for Corbyn, along with my sister and most other members of his CLP. He told me, 'I'm in this to win elections, and I believe Corbyn can win.'

claig, I really enjoyed the Mark Steel article. Exactly what I think and feel. Why are they so afraid of simply letting people have a say?

I'm on the fence - I am a liberal democrat after all but interested to see what 'new world' Corbyn can offer. There's talk of a more egalitarian age and a return to a well funded NHS, state run services and utilities etc - guess this all seems very frightening to the establishment. All sounds fairly exciting to me if I can believe that it would happen. Fairer surely is better? Is Theresa May really representative of normal people?

Hey are you guys gonna celebrate the EU's victory over Google's search engine especially the way Google display shopping results & 3rd party website searches? It's the unaccountable elite attacking the unaccountable elite. They don't admittedly have a rich clown as charismatic leader, but otherwise exactly your kind of sport.