Well done Labour NEC - Corbyn can stand

[claig]

They have voted 18-14 to allow Corbyn to stand in the leadership election.

One less stitch-up in a season os stitch-ups.

Go Corbyn!

[practy]

Labour is slowly imploding. We will have a Conservative Government for many years.

[LazyCake]

Yes, practy, I am appalled by this rebellion. I have Polish/Bulgarian friends who have kids in school, homes, businesses, etc, and they have no idea what the future holds for them. No one is speaking up for them or trying to get answers from the Tories. Meanwhile, Angela Eagle blubs on tele because it’s all getting too much for her. She should be ashamed, as should all the rebels.

[flowersandsunshine]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/15/labour-death-spite-bullying-working-class-base sums up a lot of how I feel. The party is over.

It has been infiltrated by too many troublemakers and thugs - a shame for the genuinely idealistic Corbyn supporters and maybe even Corbyn himself (I remain unconvinced he is a 'nice' man at all - I think he's egotistical, stubborn, stupid and very weak). But I don't see any way of undoing it.

[LazyCake]

Yes, flowers, I am one of the infiltrators. Except we weren't infiltrators to begin with, were we? We were invited in, feted as 'ordinary people', 'the 99%', 'hard-working' mums and dads, etc. That is until they heard what we had to say.

Thanks for the article link. I read it, but disagree with much of what it says. Obviously there are a few loons and crackpots around who the Police need to deal with. However, I think the rebel MPs and right-wing NEC members are (deliberately?) confusing robust debate with harassment. Freedom of expression and assembly, protest marches, peaceful pickets etc. are in the DNA of the Labour movement, and I am proud to participate in them. I don't suppose the Establishment was too pleased when the Chartists assembled on Kennington Green, or the men of Jarrow marched south, but this is how ordinary people make change happen. Ironically, the ban on CLP meetings will make Labour members more likely to resort to these tactics.

Those who assume political office have a duty to listen, not just to people who look and sound like them and say things that they approve of, but to everybody. Not all of us had the benefit of being shuttled from PPE at Oxford into a parliamentary seat. We make our arguments in whatever clumsy way we can.

By all accounts the hours-long meeting of MPs in which Corbyn was serially denounced was a very hostile affair. It must have been extremely unpleasant for him to endure. But I absolutely defend the right of those MPs to put their points across. Free expression is, after all, of paramount importance in a democracy. But it worries me that, in attempting to silence members, right-wingers are treating it as expendable in order to make short term political gains.

[Memoires]

I'm a floating voter. If Eagle were in charge I would vote for any other party (except Tories - probably). If Corbyn wins this, then I probably shall vote for Labour in the next GE.

[bojorojo]

Before the next election, 75% of Labour MPs will be deselected. Labour will not take any seats off the Conservstives or the SNP. It is highly likely UKIP will take seats off Labour, especially in the areas that voted Brexit in the largest numbers. JC is currently leading a pressure group, not a political party capable of winning an election. All the promises are empty and those who think spend, spend, spend is possible, think again. It is easy to vote for this if you are not paying taxes. If you are a taxpayer, just wait for the tax hikes under a Labour government to pay for it. This is never a vote winner. Labour had to change in the 1980's/90s to get elected. In the end, it will have to change again, to the right. There will be no choice if it wants power. If it does not and wants to be a minority party, then carry on with the thugs and threats and the empty rhetoric. What a total mess of a party.

[Memoires]

I am happy to pay taxes - even on my meagre income. If taxes went up, sure I'd be a bit pissed off, but I know that it helps to keep our country's infrastructure and, more i portantly, helps pay for the welfare state and the NHS. So, if Labour - or any party - hike taxes, I'd be OK with that. I have been in the past and I will be again.

[derxa]

OMG claig I actually agree with you.

[claig]

'OMG claig I actually agree with you.'

Most people find they do. It's common sense.

[oldbirdy]

Corbyn did vote against Iraq, good on him. He also voted against intervening in the horrendous genocide in Kosovo. How come no one mentions that? How was that morally superior? Has Corbyn ever voted to intervene anywhere? I don't think politics is as simple as 'non military intervention at all costs' which got Chamberlain the name of Appeaser through history. I am also deeply uncomfortable about him coating up to the IRS when it was involved in killing people. I don't understand why Corbyn has none if this held against him. Can anyone explain?

[oldbirdy]

Ffs IRA not IRS

[claig]

'He also voted against intervening in the horrendous genocide in Kosovo. How come no one mentions that? How was that morally superior?'

Because the Kosovo Liberation Army was deliberately armed and trained to split the state of Yugoslavia and Al Qaeda was used to help achieve it. Galloway was also against that war as was the Tory MP, Alan Clark.

[claig]

In a similar way, the Muslim terrorists in conjunction with Al Nusra (who are a namechanged Al Qaeda) as well as Isis have been funded to overthrow the state of Syria.

[oldbirdy]

I still don't see how that means sitting back allowing mass killings of Muslims and 'ethnic cleansing' is morally right, claig

[claig]

'I still don't see how that means sitting back allowing mass killings of Muslims and 'ethnic cleansing' is morally right'

It was a war and there was the usual war propaganda involved. There wer atrocities on all sides. You need to google to find out what really happened. Go to left wing sites like antiwar.com and globalresearch.ca to see what really happened. It is no use following the BBC if you want the truth.

[claig]

Don't forget that Corbyn was in charge of Stop the War. If there is one thing Corbyn really does understand, it is how these wars are run and who benefits from them.

Corbyn gets some things wrong, but he does operate from a more moral base than most politcians. He is not on the board of any companies, he doesn't get cushy professorships or posts where the bankers and bigwigs tell him what to do; he just marches with the unions and tries to stop wars and killings.

[claig]

Corbyn voted against the Iraq War, Angela Eagle voted for it. Corbyn has remained true to his principles throughout his entire career. Corbyn is unlikely to sell out, he isn't after fame or fortune or promotion by bankers and bigwigs; he hasn't gota Faith Foundation or a Charidee, he offers no advice to dictators, his palm is never greased, he only wants to do what he thinks is right and then return to his humble allotment.

[claig]

Corbyn actually has the potential to win a general election and Corbyn cannot be controlled by all the bigwigs and bankers on earth. That is why the Establishment is desperate to stop him, that is why the media briefs against him.

[RhodaBull]

Labour is at at the bottom of the pit at the moment.

Watching the news last week, the crying woman and the Shadow Education Secretary who looked and spoke like Catherine Tate doing "Am I bovvered?" just looked awful and if Labour is to stand any chance in the future there needs to be a massive broom sweeping out all the sub-standard people. Do they find it difficult to find electable people? Because it sure looks like it.

[claig]

RhodaBull, excellent point, some people said exactly the same thing to me about that.

[claig]

The "crying woman" has been all over the BBC and media. It adds fuel to the Corbyn "bullies" story.

[oldbirdy]

Well I am just an ordinary person who has been jumped on and vilified for suggesting on social media that I thought Corbyn should step down after the vote of no confidence. So I don't need to be convinced that there are a load of people being immensely verbally aggressive in Corbyn 's name. I don't think he supports that (except for the lovely McDonnell's gaffe about fucking useless plotters) but I do think it is an issue he needs to control better.

[oldbirdy]

I don't think my point about Kosovo has been adequately answered. Hitler had a plan to conquer lots of Europe. Didn't make it right to stand back and do nothing. We live in shame for failing to intervene in Rwanda when the Hutu had a plan to overthrow the ruling minority. And no one has even answered about the IRA...

[claig]

'I don't think my point about Kosovo has been adequately answered.'

Germany was behind the bustup of Yugoslavia, as Croatia and Slovenia would end up in its orbit and just as in WWII, the Serbs, who were our allies in WWII, ended up being attacked. That was why Tory historian and MP, Alan Clark, was against that war. The objectives of the war were to take former communist Yougoslavia out of the Russian Slav spehere of influence and begin the process of bringing those countries into NATO and the EU, as well as the usual privatisation of industries and banking interests etc. That is what wars are all about. The "humanitarian" stuff is a smokescren and cover that is used to foll the people and which the media are charged with rpromoting. Corbyn understands all of that because he was in charge of "Stop The War".

'And no one has even answered about the IRA...'

On the IRA, Corbyn believes in a united Ireland. He sees it as a leftover from British imperialism. I disagree with him on that, but that is what he and many far left socialists believe.

[LazyCake]

oldbirdy, I don't like some of the comments Corbyn has made about the IRA either. I have tried to rationalize them, but they're just plain wrong.

I shall be voting for him, though: not for ideological reasons (I'd hesitate to call myself left-wing), but because he is the only candidate who can bring the change that is so desperately needed. I believe his respect for ordinary people and the processes of democracy is absolutely genuine. I also think that he is just about as close to incorruptible as a flesh and blood human being is likely to get. These are reasons enough for me.