Any UKIP supporters on here? What exactly are you voting for?

[chicaguapa]

I confess I don't know what the UKIP policies are, but wondered if the people voting for them could explain to me what they are please. Thanks.

nicetabard exactly why go backwards? I am fully aware things need I proving but to abolish long fought for rights is not progress.

Improving

The course (it was an hour or 2) was very interesting.

All of the people who had characteristics that people discriminate against were nodding a lot and "got" it. Presumably as a consequence of having had stuff happen in the lives.

The people who acted like this was all new to them, and the two who really couldn't "get" it, were all white men.

I found it enlightening and was a great demonstration of unconscious privilege.

Oh but what UKIP want to do away with is not diversity schemes but laws protecting people from discrimination in the workplace because of sex, race, sexual orientation etc.

Bollywood's cnp upthread refers.

Well I'm sure they won't mind diversity training going, but that is a smokescreen for their real aim ie to get rid of legislation which aims to stop employers / people at work being total bastards to black people or sacking them for no reason etc.

Many tories keen on a similar approach of course.

JAYWALL YOU NEED TO LOOK UP WHO ARE BIGGEST TRADING PARTNERS ARE IMPORT AND EXPORT 1 U.S.A a 2 GERMANY 3FRANCE 4 ITALY 5 SPAIN 6 NETHERLANDS WHEN ALL IMPORT AND EXPORT OF OF THE 27 MEMBER STATES ARE ADDED IT IS NEARLY 85% of all IMPORT AND EXPORT IT IS A RED HERRING WHEN PEOPLE GO ON ABOUT THE BRIC COUNTRIES. U.K.I.P KNOW THIS BUT THEY BELIEVE THAT WE COULD BECOME A BIG SWITZERLAND,IE BE PART OF A TRADING COMMUNITY BUT HAVE NO RESPONSIBILTIES,SOUNDS GREAT THAT IS WHAT U.K.I.P IS TRYING TO SELL THE BRITISH PUBLIC AND YOU CAN GOOGLE THE UKs LARGEST TRADING PARTNERS.

But what is the alternative - do nothing?

Certainly some of the white men looked a bit thoughtful at times.

But I guess the main message they got was that whether they "got it" or not - poor behaviour would not be tolerated. So even if they don't understand why, they might think twice before saying / doing stuff that others might find unacceptable. Maybe.

Still a way to go, yes, if men took 1/2 the parental leave for example.

George83 I get where you are coming from but anything is better than nothing in this case. I don't like UKIP's proposals.i don't like the theme of their policies and I feel they are looking back to a time when life was easier- only it wasn't easier, not for everyone. It was just less complicated because there were less rules to follow. Rules are there for a reason and yes they do need to be improved and in certain areas people need more autonomy to make decisions, I agree.

I've already said about maternity leave - I think small employers should be able to opt out - I'm a mother but also someone who has been involved with running a small business...if I was to go back to it -honestly I would be reluctant to take on a woman of child bearing years because of that...
It isn't just the SMP payments -it is arranging cover for antenatal appointments with only one or two members of staff, finding alternative work - if heavy lifting etc is involved -or proving you can't, then recruiting and training to fill the post ...finally the ridiculous situation - you have holiday entitlement on maternity leave -the person doing your job will also have holiday entitlement - the employer has to pay two lots ..extra money they have to find that comes straight out of their profits - which are their wages (and if the employer is a woman who pays for their maternity leave?) And things like you are entitled to the same bonus as everyone else whilst on maternity leave - that isn't fair on other members of staff...(who have worked harder to cover your antenatal appointments and train up your short term replacement)...all the while treading on egg shells in case you get taken to tribunal over something you did 'wrong' - like can you ask someone if they still plan on coming back when they said or not?
You may or may not chose to get pregnant -but it is your (and the father's) responsibility to deal with it ...not your employers...
And for anyone up in arms about that - how would you feel if you had to take a £2000+* pay cut to pay for someone's holiday entitlement accrued whilst on maternity leave
(*£2154 is hol pay for a year at £20K)

Is the maternity leave as it stands a 'gain'?

As mentioned it could be argued leaving such schemes in place will strip the workplace of women who 'may' become pregnant.

That is the law of unintended consequences.

Yes, I am pulling the pillars in here I know.

What bothers me is the fact they even need to mention changing policies regarding race and sexual orientation....

Shame men can't have babies really isn't it?

You know even if for small business there was an opt out it wouldn't work. There are many small businesses in which the workforce is primarily made up of women. There needs to be a middle ground. For many women knowing you have your job to return to is enough. It would have been for me. But abolishing all rights is also ridiculous.

At the moment the trend is for shared parental leave which takes the not hiring childbearing age women thing out of the equation a bit.

I do understand that it is very hard for small businesses but I find it dismaying that if people trying to make money find something hard the answer is well obviously women should get fucked over.

Well that's me folks. Goodnight if anyone is left and it's been an interesting discussion!!

There hasn't been much discussion here BollyGood, there has been trial of UKIP with every bias, bent view and outright bullshit thrown at them with a couple of normal people trying to keep it as a discussion.

I find it disappointing that debate was lost to this.

Still, it will keep occurring elsewhere where open and curious minds reside.

Goodnight all, best of.

NT If more parents did shared leave...but there is no guarantee and the law is as it stands...
A lot of employment law is geared towards large businesses - employing any member of staff is a potential nightmare for small businesses...
Discrimination and right to work - it is the employers responsibility to make sure employees have a right to work in UK -big fines if you do employ someone who isn't...but it is discrimination if you just ask someone for proof who you think may fall into that category...so you find yourself having to ask someone you know them (and their parents and grandparents) with a broad local accent for something that proves they are entitled to work here (passport -if they have one) which you copy and store in their file (which has to be kept secure and confidential and you have to prove that it is....)

And woman with maternity rights and sex discrimination are worse...
Maybe not an opt out - but definitely ability to relax rules ...to come to some formal compromise ...employer's don't want to fuck women over ...and sure a lot of women would settle for less than their 'rights' but it doesn't work that way ...
Most small businesses don't have/can't afford HR departments watching everything they do...advising them on the latest changes in laws etc - it can be scary being an employer...you are often persoanlly liable ...
(I have experience of nearly getting to a tribunal ...complainant pulled out day before because she knew the truth would come out -cost business £1000 in legal fees, lots of stress and time and a personal blow to owner (who had treated her like a little sister) -this was to do with a pregnant employee - later it transpired she thought that the £20k compensation she was asking for would be paid for by 'insurance' -not business personally ...and so it wouldn't be contested etc -her legal fees were free...)

It is not discrimination to ask to see someone's passport to check they have the right to work in the UK. Why do you think that?

And what does this even mean? "And woman with maternity rights and sex discrimination are worse..."

At the moment the trend is for shared parental leave which takes the not hiring childbearing age women thing out of the equation a bit.

I was having this very conversation with an Icelandic friend a few hours ago. Iceland has a year of paid parental leave.

Three months of which has to be taken by both parents (so if the father doesn't take his three month parental leave that three months is lost) and the remaining six months the couple can decide what to do with the leave between them.

It seems an eminently sensible system, I meant to ask what happened for single parents where the other parent isn't involved, do they get three months less than people in couples? Other than that gripe it seems eminently sensible. As a male I would love to spend three months with my children in their first year.

YY compos I think a lot of men feel like that. DH would have loved the opportunity.

A lot of these comments do not reflect UKIP views, but as they will not gain power it does not really matter.

Xenia I hope you are right! But I wouldn't take it for granted.