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Original poster

Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

999 replies

wickeddevil · 30/03/2013 22:27

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

OP posts:
SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:05

Post something goading or sneering, so I bite, then you're all doe eyed 'What'd I do??'. Tedious.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 16/04/2013 23:06

Are we at phase 2 yet? This thread is about to finish - and I fear vadark will only have had time to post a load of unsubstantiated rubbish about men being objectified more than women, and not actually answer seeker's questions. What to make of that??

Pan · 16/04/2013 23:08

I see. You'll have to point to the evidence of that. But I do appreciate you have problems with pointing to evidence.

God, if any discussion could drive me to being a feminist....

Blistory · 16/04/2013 23:09

Phase 2 is where we learn how to procreate without men.

Phase 3 is the elimination of all remaining men and boys.

I admit it. That's what feminism is all about.

SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:10

'God, if any discussion could drive me to being a feminist'

Go for it. You don't have the wherewithal to be anything else really.

seeker · 16/04/2013 23:11

Oh shit- please don't tell me Vardak is some elaborate hoax.........I can't bear the thought of all the wasted time........But surely nobody really thinks like that?

SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:12

Anyone want to discuss the feminist father telling his 4 year old son that he's a rapist for trying to kiss a girl?

Pan · 16/04/2013 23:13

Okay. "SF turned me."Grin

night

MaryRobinson · 16/04/2013 23:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:15

Read the article Mary. Do you think that it was acceptable for a feminist father to tell his 4 year old son that it was rape to try and kiss a girl?

seeker · 16/04/2013 23:16

I read the article. He didn't say that.

MaryRobinson · 16/04/2013 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:18

Yes he did. His son said he tried to kiss a girl, his father said 'that was rape'.

MaryRobinson · 16/04/2013 23:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:19

If my DH said that to my son, he would never, ever lay eyes on his son again.

runningforthebusinheels · 16/04/2013 23:20

"According to this Telegraph article Female graduates earn less than males ? even if they studied the same subject though - the outlook is a lot more rosy for boys than girls:"

Vadark: Hang on, need to put new batteries in the bullshit detector.

No, you don't, your detector is working fine.

I posted a Telegraph article (not a Women's Group or Feminist blog as you obviously don't trust them) about the UK Male-Female pay gap.

The Pay Gap stats in the UK are that the male-female pay gap is around 15%. And yes, that includes people doing the same job. It is sourced from things like UK University long term studies (the one I linked to was Warwick University) and others are from the Office of National Statistics.

You posted a study that seemed to be about Kenya and other African countries - and had no references. You then posted a Comment is free article which included had a sensationalist headline - but then linked to a study which still found the pay gap to be 10%. And the writer's point of view seemed to be positive about the narrowing pay gap.

Does the narrowing pay gap bother you? Do you not think women deserve to be paid the same as men?

Blistory · 16/04/2013 23:21

SF, that's illogical and an example that MRAs would use as evidence about how women exclude fathers from their children's lives.

Vadark · 16/04/2013 23:22

"Well, there's vasectomy. But yes. I agree."

Firstly, like I said before, we need to discount serialisation for both partners because we are assuming a youngish, fertile couple. Otherwise it gets too complicated. We can discuss that later if you wish.

Ok, so you agree that women have more choice as far as contraception goes AND that it is more discreet. Great.

So it's fair to say that the woman has the advantage during Phase 1 in that:

  1. She has more choice regarding the method she personally uses.
  2. She can easily choose a discreet method and gain acceptability of that from her partner based on social acceptance.
  3. She can choose whether or not she tells her partner the truth (because it is discreet and he would pretty much have to rely on her word, especially after a few drinks).
  4. She has full visibility of his condom so she KNOWS the score and can SEE and identify with, and establish the risk, far more easily than he could.

Where as he is disadvantaged because:

  1. He has fewer choices for himself in terms of personal contraception methods,
  2. He can't really trick her or lie about the contraception if he's using a condom because it is so visible.
  3. He has to entirely rely on her word if she's using a discreet method.

So all in all, the female has far more control throughout Phase 1 and far more potential to deceive her partner.

Which bit of that lot don't you agree with?

runningforthebusinheels · 16/04/2013 23:24

Probably not because for every page 3 girl in the Sun there is probably another 5 beefy, stripped-to-the-waste guys in the rest of the paper. It's just that us guys are supposed to live with that.

That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on mumsnet. And I've been here years.

I'm going with hoax.

Vadark · 16/04/2013 23:24

"Phase 2 is where we learn how to procreate without men.

Phase 3 is the elimination of all remaining men and boys.

I admit it. That's what feminism is all about."

Then you are a nasty piece of work.

SigmundFraude · 16/04/2013 23:25

"I have honestly have been reassessing the fact that I am giving care to these little future rapists, and what that says about me about me and my separatism. I know it is kinda going against my principle to support and care for these little fuckers."

Another feminist quote. The point I'm making here, is that feminists can be a confusing mix of hideous and reasonable. When you all think I'm talking out of my arse because I don't support feminism, I'm thinking about that psycho feminist father teaching his son that trying to kiss (at 4!!) is rape, and the childcare worker quoted above.

Why would anyone support an ideology that consists of people like that?

Vadark · 16/04/2013 23:27

"Yes he did. His son said he tried to kiss a girl, his father said 'that was rape'."

WTF. Where is that story, I missed it.

Vadark · 16/04/2013 23:28

"Oh shit- please don't tell me Vardak is some elaborate hoax"

Give me a break for God's sake!

runningforthebusinheels · 16/04/2013 23:28

1. He has fewer choices for himself in terms of personal contraception methods

Yes but he still has contraception choices. The far right Conservatives in the US are looking to take contraception rights away from single women completely.

2. He can't really trick her or lie about the contraception if he's using a condom because it is so visible.

Yes he can - if he really wants to. There was a thread on here recently where a woman had sex with a man and then got pregnant, then he told her he's 'sabotaged' the condom.

3. He has to entirely rely on her word if she's using a discreet method.

That is entirely up to him - he has contraceptive methods available to him if he is in any doubt. It's 50-50.