Society: why has it gone and how do we get it back?

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

According to Wikipedia: "A society, or a human society, is a group of people related to each other through persistent relations, or a large social grouping sharing the same geographical or virtual territory, subject to the same political authority and dominant cultural expectations".

I don?t believe it exists anymore and this cannot be a good thing.

When did it go wrong?
How do we get is back?
Does it exist in parts of the UK?

Of course it exists using that definition. Here we all are in the same rather crowded patch of northern Europe, following the same laws from the same government and happily conforming to all kinds of unspoken cultural expectations like queuing nicely in the Post Office or standing up for old people on the bus. However, a feature of modern life is that we are much more independent (more single person households, for example), see ourselves as less directly responsible for others including close family and have fewer personal connections day-to-day. 21st century Britain offers many opportunities to be a virtual hermit.

society exists.

community doesn't - is that what you mean?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/1516498-Can-i-ask-about-Scottish-independence cogito will you comment on this please love to hear your views

CCC community doesn't - is that what you mean? YES!!!!!

well of course there are different kinds of community - culturla, religious - online

but in terms of a historical traditional community

When did it go wrong?
thatcher

How do we get is back?
we don't, thatcher imparted individualism where we must look our for ourselves.

Does it exist in parts of the UK?
yes it does. i would wager the poorer parts. i lived on a council estate that was kind of a community, in that you really did know everyones name and everyones business, you really did turn up on someones doorstep and tell them to keep their fucking kids in line. you could also get shot and kneecapped - so there was a downside

but i shit you not, my kids couldn't fart without me knowing about it - i had at least 3 people tell me if they were doing something wrong - this was 15 years ago now

i think there is community in the area nr liverpool my family is from - like the whole pub singing happy b'day to you. oh but there are a lot of robbing smackheads! And it is fairly racist if you can say that of an entire area...

but it is very homogenious.

Didn't Thatcher say there is no such thing as society, instead she meant I will ensure there is no such thing as community.

I don't think the rot started with thatcher although neo-liberalism and individualism is a symptom of advanced capitalism. Under the same economic/social system we saw the baby boomers prosper. That is where the breakdown of community started. The working classes lost their class consciousness and with that their sense of community.

so can there generally speaking only be community with in a class?

(i can think of specific exceptions in RL where there is another link e.g. relations, friendship)

Community exists. It unites us in common. 15 million people watched Andy Murray in the Wimbledon final, not because there are 15 million tennis fans in this country, but because that one man united 15 million people together and represented those 15 million people at that moment in time. We are bouind by a shared love of our roots, traditions and love of nation. We are "all in it together", we are part of one community that is greater and nobler than anyone of us.

'so can there generally speaking only be community with in a class?'

This sounds like Marxist class warfare claptrap. A community unites all classes, just as in World War II, posh toffs and working class people united and fought for the same nation.

Well I live as part of not one, but many communities.
You do have to go out and take part in things though - it's not as common for "society" to come knocking on your door.
Then of course, you can add in the 21st century communities of folk sharing and supporting one another through the internet.

When the chips are down, we come together in community spirit. We are all united, be that millionaires in Chelsea or beggars on skid row, in our condemnation of the spivs who have ripped all of us off.

Didn't the Queens Jubilee weekend bring communities together with street parties and other events?

Exactly, Prncessdivaaa. The pride in our shared community was demonstrated, just as in the Royal Wedding too.

And the Olympic torch bearing where thousands turn up to cheer the torch carriers in the pouring rain.

"Didn't Thatcher say there is no such thing as society"

It's always taken out of context. At the time a very common excuse for all kinds of personal failings was 'it's not my fault, it's society'. She simply pointed out that 'society' only comes about through the collective action of individuals.... i.e. we are society & it's not some nebulous separate entity.

It's gone because we are richer. We can get it back by becoming poorer. There will be enormous tearing losses along the way, particularly as going downhill is more painful than going uphill. I don't think we have to worry about it, it will happen anyway.

It's gone because we are richer. i know what you mean but dont know why this is.

The richer people get, the more freedom and independence they gain, and the less they feel they need the help of others, so the bonds of community are weakened. As people become poorer or are in trouble, they need more help from others and they get closer. It's the same for religion, as they get poorer they become more religious and pray for help.

We haven't had a comprehensive national disaster for a while either.

This sounds like Marxist class warfare claptrap. A community unites all classes, just as in World War II, posh toffs and working class people united and fought for the same nation

That's because the toffs were issued with ration books

And there was me thinking Claig had turned a leaf I'm yet to read all your thread claig, I'm getting through it, I don't know what to add, youv'e got it covered!

Hi Mini . Rome wasn't built in day, I can't turn a leaf overnight

The word community I thought was french , comuner which is commune,hold in common or communité which translates as communist. All words come from latin Communitas, meaning "Communitas is an intense community spirit, the feeling of great social equality, solidarity, and togetherness. Communitas is characteristic of people experiencing liminality together. This term is used to distinguish the modality of social relationship from an area of common living" (liminality means to make similar)

So it would seem, that in order to have community the people must first have something in common. In view of the fact that we are individuals pitted against each other for scarce resources and the material aspect of our life central to existence and how we feel about ourselves, it is little wonder we don't have community.

I know claig, it's hard work, It took me 20 years to fully get to grips with capital and it took marx at least as long to write it

'We haven't had a comprehensive national disaster for a while either.'

Did you miss the grade inflation and dumbing down in schools?