Last year Ken Livingstone earned £238,646. He paid £34,661 in tax.

[longfingernails]

That is 14.5%. Defend that, socialists.

He is also the only one of the Newsnight debate candidates to refuse publishing his entire tax return.

Defend that, socialists.

For anyone misinformed about socialism, these are good places to start.
ouleft.org/
www.worldsocialism.org/articles/what_is_socialism.php
www.socialistaction.org/socialism.htm

Socialism isn't about an elite class buying shoes at tax payer expense or an elite class in politics who rule over everyone else, it isn't about communism of the kind found in Russia (squashed by uber wealthy bankers making money out of an arms race) it isn't about the domination of the poor and it isn't about siezing private property for the requisition of others. (tax is though) I have just described capitalism

?? Who was responsible for the tax regime over the last year?

Tax, causes more problems than it solves. Where are most of our taxes going? Longfingernails.

Does most of it pay off sovereign debt or buy shoes for ken? If we reformed the tax system to make it fair with a progressive system and redistribution, who would lose, would the poorest gain, or would we simply cause another form of indebtedness and dependency?

Democratic socialism is doomed to fail because it can not tackle the root of the inequality, Ken, Blair, Balls and others are there for decoration because they can not alter the conditions in which we live. All the time they are there we can not formulate a real socialist plan because these people discredit the very thing they profess to stand for and obscure the real debate.

labour-uncut.co.uk/2012/04/06/death-by-a-thousand-nics-beckons-for-the-livingstone-campaign/ A good article from a Labour blog

In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis.

And that is why socialism is nothing more than utterly stupid fantasy drivel. So let me get this straight....socialism advocates just giving stuff away. And people would 'volunteer' to work. I don't know about you but if it were me, if I was getting everything for free and could 'volunteer' to work then i think I'd prefer to stay at home and spend time with my family instead.

And coming back to the topic of conversation here, for me this boils down to trust.

Ken has been caught with his pants around his ankles with regards to his tax affairs. But rather than simply say "Look, I've done nothing wrong, just simply minimising the amount of tax I pay" he's instead been twisting the truth and borderline lying his arse off to justify what he's done and to throw muck at Boris hoping it will stick.

No wonder Boris is hopping mad. He's not engaged in any sort of tax avoidance. He's arguably therefore paid more tax than he needed to and someone's now accusing him of also being a tax dodger.

So in my mind, who do you trust more. The guy who's paid his taxes fully, if not more than he needed to or the guy twisting the truth/lying?

I do find it interesting though that the leftie's who are always the first to argue the rich should pay more, should find that actually the toff has actually been paying more whilst the champion of the left and downtrodden has been engaging in tax avoidance.

Can't see anyone on here defending Ken.

Reading the papers today, the consensus seems to be that this tax stuff has done for him (Ken, that is).
Good.

"Many critics say that socialism is a great idea in theory but that it is completely unrealistic and utopian because it goes against basic human nature. The critics claim that human beings are just too selfish, too greedy, too competitive, and too aggressive to create and sustain a cooperative and egalitarian society"

If people are too selfish, too greedy and too competitive and they don't wish to contribute to society then that is because we are not immune to the pervading social norms and we act within a system that we know rewards these traits. Why do we lack belief in our capacity to either change or do social good, same reason.

I think Ken is done for, rightly so. It is indefensible. He digs a bigger hole, why did labour allow him to stand, he's past it, he continually puts his foot.

Labour want Ken kind of inside the tent.

Ken is not getting my vote (I'm not a socialist BTW), neither is Boris.

Both are far removed from real politics in my opinion.

I'm dismayed because I'll have to vote tactically although no chance of keeping Boris out sadly. Can't say he's done much except for buy some shiny bikes.

Niceguy2: that's his style, isn't it? Like Diane Abbott, he thinks we're so dumb that as long as what comes out of his mouth sounds consistent, we'll believe any old crap that he spouts.

I meant to say in my earlier post that Ken replies when I wrote to him, and it was his response that convinced me that he is basically a self-absorbed little oil.

Oik! Damn you, autocorrect! Though he is a horrible little greaser, so maybe autocorrect was right for once!

Damn again! "Ken replied.

at modern technology.

Don't like Ken and didn't vote for him when I lived in London, despite voting mostly Labour at general elections.

But I don't see why Boris should be praised for paying taxes - he's just done what he should have done and what most of the electorate do. Ken should be criticised if he hasn't, but paying taxes doesn't make Boris a candidate for sainthood.

Main reason I didn't vote for Ken is he seems like a nasty piece of work, I don't like his attitude to Islamic extremists who hate women. What really put the tin lid on it was Ken turning up at the gym dh and I used to use. There was an aqua aerobics session on, with several pregnant women. Ken was angry that the pool was in use - for a scheduled session - and refused to piss off. Instead, he swam through the group, kicking the women. Bastard. Dh was in the class and saw this with his own eyes.

Then there was the infamous party where Ken apparently dragged his pregnant girlfriend out by force...

I need to revise my all time frother Question Time line-up.

George Galloway
Ken Livingston
Samantha Brick (replaces Katie Hopkins)
Sarah 'I'm a government minister' Teather (supplied with canned laughter)
John Redwood (with Welsh subtitles saying 'I'm a twat' and 'I'm a vulcan' all the way through)

Oh dearie me... has Red Ed been trying to hide any mention of Silveta Ltd from donor declarations?

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4244947/Mili-in-new-row-over-br-Kens-19202-br-tax-dodge-donation.html

Ken tries to say that the focus on his taxes is a "distraction"

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/08/tax-london-mayor-ken-livingstone

Anyone out there like Ken Livingstone?

No?

Another unanimous thread then. Hooray for Mumsnet solidarity!

Edam - thanks for your post - shocking, but I'm not surpised. I also once shared a swimming pool with Ken. His behaviour wasn't very pleasant. I just assumed I was being irrational, and I did vote for him.

Maybe candidates should reveal their swimming pool behaviour record as well as their tax records .

I think it's all to the credit of 'proper socialists' that they don't defend Ken. However, the leap of faith that minimathsmouse is proposing, won't even get a hearing whilst those "on the left" are seen to avoid paying their taxes.

Is Ken a socialist?

Samantha Brick cannot replace Kate Twatkins, she's just been an arse to herself....Twatkins is a vile specimen, I had to turn the radio off the other day because she said something I agreed with. [took myself into a dark corner and had a good talking to]

Spare a thought for poor old George Osbourne in all of this. He's just got over his terrible shock at his discovery that very rich people don't pay any tax and now to find out Ken is only paying 14% or whatever. I hope he was sitting down when he found out.

As we all agree we don't like Ken, I'll make no apologies for this link.

Tears of a Clown

Albert

Jackstarb, interesting to see dh isn't the only one who has seen Ken being less than gentlemanly in a swimming pool. What was he up to when you saw him - divebombing toddlers?