The big society

[newwave]

Has anyone heard Dave mention the big society or we are all in this together lately? Then again he may have just influenced society to come together albeit they appear to be protesting against his policies and his rich "mates" greed.

One worry I have is that next summer the more "radical protesters" will be burning and looting shops in a High Street near you after all what need do you have to hold back if you are young with no future you have very little to lose. If I could I would suggest to them that if they must indulge in looting shops and burning homes then maybe Knightsbridge, Belgravia and Mayfair should be their destination of choice. Unlike Tottenham I doubt that the Police would sit back and let the rich burn. Better still give them a future, hope and jobs, then again we have a Tory government so that is unlikely as creating unemployment and hardship for those at the bottom is hardwired into their DNA.

Benjamin Zephaniah was great on Question Time last night. He asked the question that all of the public ask, when he said to Ed Balls
"Why didn't Labour do something about it?"

He was not fooled by their spin and promises and nor are the public.

'I don't care.'

I suppose you don't care about Climategate too? Why do you think they go to all that trouble? You don't care, because you haven't got a clue.

'Ants? One day? Maybe? If this bothers you so much, do what we do and have an allotment and grow your own. Or stock up on tinnned food.

Unlike you, I don't only care about myself. I don't want any people to have to eat ants because "there are no alternatives". I care about the people who can't afford allotments like you, and people who don't take notice of current affairs and don't know what may be coming down the road for them.

i think breadandbutterfly meant to type 'chips' not ants.....after reviewing it

In that case, I take it all back.

Amusing BBC Radio 4 Today clip with the magnificent working class Julie Burchill refusing to bow and scrape to the rich, inherited wealth greens. The posh public-school educated George Monbiot tries to counter working class Julie's excellent points. George argues that journalists, the arts and even the Labour party contain lots of posh people, so why single environmentalism for this.

news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7544000/7544598.

Sorry, link is

news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7544000/7544598.stm

Fine, claig, we'll have this as the 2ants2 thread. But can we limit it to one?

You know, for most people, the merits/demerits of green policies are neither here nor there - we try to do our bit on recycling or whatever, but ultimately have more urgent things to worry about than whether the climate is going to bugger up in 50 years or whatever - we worry about whether we'll have a job next year, or be able to put food on the table. I hear you about all the mainstream parties offering similar fare; though, no, I don't think the Labour Party would have been as bad.

But that is a reason to protest, get involved in politics at grassroots levels etc - not handwring about theoretical ants.

Sorry, but your 'all the elite are in cahoots so we're screwed' rhetoric reads very similarly to 'let's not do anything at all then, because we're screwed whatever we do'. Which is defeatist and definitely will NOT achieve anything.

So forgive me if I regard you as part of your own 'conspiracy' on this one.

aargh 2ants2 = "ants". Grrr caps key.

You see that's why I like working class people like Julie Burchill, who understand very well what the purpose behind the green policies is. She tells you that it is the rich, inherited-wealth elite dictating to the working classes what they should eat and what cars they should drive.

I don't think they are joking about ants being the "staple food" of the future. Newsnight is not a comedy programme, it is there to influence your opinions.

I am with Julie Burchill, not you who just blames the cliched "nasty Tories". I don't think we are doomed, I don't believe in the elite's "catastrophic climate change", I don't believe the doom-laden elite warnings of "we have only 50 days left to save the planet". I don't think we have to accept green "limits to growth" and anti-capitalist impoverishment of working class people because the elite tell us "we have passed the tipping point". I think they are lying and are hpocrites, just like Julie Burchill does.

I don't think we are powerless against the elite and their plans to make ants our "staple food". I think we can laugh at them, like Julie Burchill does. There is nothing they like worse than their pomposity being pricked. All of their plans then evaporate as they are deflated like an empty hot air balloon.

They always put posh George Monbiot on our TV screens to educate us. They think he will do the job and convince the public, because he is undoubtedly a very clever man.

But there is one working class woman who can defend the people against the views taht he and the elites hold. That woman is the brilliantly funny and equally clever Julie Burchill. She never went to public school or to Oxford, but she can put the elite in the shade. Thank God we have people like her who are on the side of the people and who prick the posh elite's anti-proletarian progressive prattle.

One Julie Burchill and one Mark Steel can do more to change the world than 10,000 misguided people ranting about "nasty Tories", filth and scum helping their rich mates. Burchill and Steel are brilliant because they cut through teh elite's sophisticated propaganda and show people aspects of the truth. Once it becomes clear, then the elite have nowhere left to hide.

Newsnight put their "staple food" ants feature on to influence people's minds. Burchill and Steel also influence people's minds. Who does it more effectively? There is no contest - Burchill and Steel, because they are telling the truth.

'Fine, claig, we'll have this as the "ants" thread. But can we limit it to one?'

You want to limit free discussion. You think you are right, and my opinions are a diversion. You are like Gordon Brown who wanted to limit discussion about "global warming" and "climate change" by calling people who disagreed with him "flat-earthers".

Ants is not a diversion. "Let them eat ants" is the new "let them eat cake". It's the elite at work. It's not a cliche about filth and scum helping their rich mates. It goes hand in hand with their "climate change" story and their green policies and is an attempt thwart ordinary people's progress and development.

You think Labour are better than the Coalition. I don't. I don't think Labour's ID card plan was meant to help the people. The Coalition have scrapped it and reinstated the people's civil liberties.

The Tories can't wave a magic wand and put everything right. They are sailing on a stormy sea, buffeted from pillar to post by the financial collapse that they were not responsible for. They will get us out of what the elites and bankers landed us into. Don't believe the siren voices of the "limits to growth" greens, progressives and elites on whose watch the collapse occurred.

It's not science fiction, it's real and they intend to do it. Why?

www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/01/insects-food-emissions

'The UN is considering strategies to cut levels of meat consumption worldwide as part of its commitment to stamp out famine and cut global warming.'

How will it stamp out famine?

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-1301970/GOOD-GRUB-GUIDE-The-UN-says-eating-creepy-crawlies-save-planet---Our-girl-finds-hard-swallow.html

claig - right, for the purposes of argument I am happy to concede that a shadowy elite is out to make us eat ants, using an evil green agenda to do so. I am assuming from the frantic tone of your posts that you think this is a Bad Thing. (Am I right here?)

So what do you plan to actually DO about it, other than a large bout of consciousness-raising on MN? So far your practical proposals seem notable largely for their absence.

Hence my matching conspiracy theories. But I'm all ears. :)

(NB Please DON'T just restate the theory - I think even the slowest MNetter must have grasped it by now. :) )

I am not frantic about it. I laugh at the greens. I know that in the end they will fail just as their global warming story displayed huge cracks when Climategate was exposed.

I don't fool myself that I have any power to do anything. I plan to continue eating healthy food like meat.

Good always beats evil and il popolo vincera.

'So far your practical proposals seem notable largely for their absence.'

That's exactly what people say to try and discourage the protestors in teh tents outside St.Paul's.

'But I'm all ears'
That's good, but a bit of balance never does any harm. Try opening your eyes too.

I was privileged to learn Latin at school. I am ashamed to say that I have forgotten all that I was taught, and have erred along life's winding way.

But there is one phrase that I have never forgotten - the immortal line

"Illegitimi non carborundum"

which if I recall correctly means "don't let the bastards grind down ants and feed them to you".

I am pleased to see that the excellent Gove is trying to reinstill this type of education because "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" - which is why it is so important to study documentaries of New Labour.

"Illegitimi non carborundum"

On second thoughts, it may mean "the carbon footprint is illegitimate".

There was nothing that escaped the Romans, which is why I agree with George Bush when he said

?I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder"

Sorry, it wasn't George Bush. Credit where credit is due, it was the equally perceptive Dan Quayle.

"is planto vos vultus bardus"

This is taking me back to Latin tests in form 3b.

Yes, Custardo, you are exactly right. The greens are talking through their beards.

"is planto vos vultus bardus"

There is no need to use that sort of language. Have reported to MNHQ.

Right ho, then. So you're quite happy with the status quo.

Excellent.

I'm not, so excuse me if I make this my last ever post discussing green conspiracies, eating ants or how great George Osborne really is.

I'll leave you to your ants thread - have fun with custardo, but I think I've heard as much repetitive guff on this topic as I'm ever likely to wish to hear. :)

'Right ho, then. So you're quite happy with the status quo. '

I'm not happy with the status quo - that's why I voted for change, for the Tories.

'I think I've heard as much repetitive guff on this topic as I'm ever likely to wish to hear.'

If you keep watching Newsnight over the next few years, I think you'll be hearing a lot more about it.