The big society

[newwave]

Has anyone heard Dave mention the big society or we are all in this together lately? Then again he may have just influenced society to come together albeit they appear to be protesting against his policies and his rich "mates" greed.

One worry I have is that next summer the more "radical protesters" will be burning and looting shops in a High Street near you after all what need do you have to hold back if you are young with no future you have very little to lose. If I could I would suggest to them that if they must indulge in looting shops and burning homes then maybe Knightsbridge, Belgravia and Mayfair should be their destination of choice. Unlike Tottenham I doubt that the Police would sit back and let the rich burn. Better still give them a future, hope and jobs, then again we have a Tory government so that is unlikely as creating unemployment and hardship for those at the bottom is hardwired into their DNA.

'Won't many of those who are poorer be out of work?'

Yes but many will be less well educated and won't appreciate the value of libraries as much as many of the middle classes. But that shouldn't prevent libraries being available for those who do value them.

Also, what type of society do we want? A society where we see people doing internships in organisations or political parties for free in the hope that that may improve their CV and they will be able to get paid employment? That's exploitation. It's not worthy of a great nation and its people.

In fact, where is the Equalities Commission in all this?
Some of this Big Society Volunteering Push is bordering on institutionalised exploitation.

No, it isn't worthy of a great nation and its people.... it is, apparently, worthy of this nation, though.

So, besides libraries, what else do we want to persuade less well educated people to appreciate? I thought the pressure these days was to provide the less well educated with what they think they want, not what the middle classes think they ought to want?

Am I right in thinking that volunteers don't get any expenses, unlike MPs?
I bet they can't claim for bath plugs, irons and taxis, unlike the MPs.

'I thought the pressure these days was to provide the less well educated with what they think they want, not what the middle classes think they ought to want?'

That is dumbed down Labour's approach, but it is an abandonment of the working classes by Islingtonistas who are too far removed from the people.

The next move will be to require all unemployed people to volunteer in libraries before they can collect their jobseekers' allowance. They will then be allowed to do jobsearches on the library computers during their lunch breaks.

And what type of volunteering to help society is allowed?
Volunteering to sleep in a tent in winter to make a point about how people are being screwed doesn't seem to be part of the Big Society.

Who then is the Big Society for? Just the Big Cheeses?

When volunteers help out in libraries where all staff have been made redundant, does the council still pay for heating costs, building maintenance, online facilities, electricity, computers, purchase of new books etc, or does everything have to be funded by volunteers?????

'The next move will be to require all unemployed people to volunteer in libraries before they can collect their jobseekers' allowance. They will then be allowed to do jobsearches on the library computers during their lunch breaks.'

I don't think that is far-fetched. There is already talk of making people work for their benefits.

Claigy's on the juice tonight....s/he's making a bit of sense

The Big Society is for the little people who need to rely on each other to keep safe and warm. The Big Cheeses can sit around getting big, fat and smelly by themselves - they use their own hot air to keep warm and suffocate anyone who complains in pools of cheesy goo in order to shut them up.

crazy, I always make sense, you know it makes sense

See...pissed as a fart

I live in a rural area with few resources for local residents. This has always been the case regardless of which party is in power.
If it wasn't for local people volunteering we wouldn't have a swimming pool, hall/community centre to meet, any re-cycling or any resources for pre-school children. We have always had big society, those of you moaning about volunteering should get out and do something useful in your local community.

crazy, unlike you, I am able to hold my drink. Four glasses of wine are like a glass of water to me, whereas they have you giving an embarrassingly loud rendition of 'Knees Up Mother Brown' and the 'Red Flag'.

...or that great Arsenal ballad.."We done the C,we done the C"

I was singing that on Saturday,Claig. Do you remember Saturday?

casawasa, if people don't say "enough is enough", then the lack of services that you accept will spread to our large cities as well as rural areas. Where does our tax money go?

Oh,and Claigy,drinking 4 glasses of wine and feeling like it's a glass of water means only one thing...you're an Alchi

I think that Saturday is proof of the old saying, "every dog has his day".

People take on the challenge here. Sometimes its a bit shit but it binds the community together. My tax money goes on keeping lots of small schools open that should probably be amalgamated and when that was an issue the community got together and fought it and won.
We are stronger as a community because we work together.

Yes a strong community is born out of adversity. But there is no need for that kind of adversity. It's like our post offices. We had them for decades, and then Labour started shutting them down, they told us they were uneconomical. They didn't ask us if we agreed. They just started doing it. How come we could afford them before, but all of a sudden they were no longer viable?

I prefer the old saying...Chelsea are shite

I see that you like an oxymoron, which explains your support for New Labour.

Lookattheears Tue 01-Nov-11 19:29:08
custardo I don't quite get your point.
Why would libraries in non MC areas be less likely to have volunteers?

demographics

MCs usually have the time and resources, either retired or have a partner who makes it affordable for the other not to work, and with only 1 or 2 kids - when at school - there is time.

for poor people it usually breaks down into
working poor - dont hav ethe time
parents with young children - dont have the time
the parents with school age children only AND not working -small proportion of the demographic in total i would suggest who could afford to do so.
high proportion of poor people on incapacity benefits who may be unable to volunteer.
there may of course be some poor old people who would rather spend the winter in a building which is actually heated

rabbitstew Tue 01-Nov-11 21:25:55
"Custardo - yes, of course closing libraries is all about saving money - even Big Society afficionados know that. I don't see how allowing them to close down helps anyone, though.."

yes yes agree so far

"...- particularly if the argument for allowing that to happen is that it's not fair that it's only MC communities that can muster anyone up to fight against it or, when the worst comes to the worst, volunteer to keep it open somehow themselves. Or do you think MC communities are happily accepting library closures because they all actually want to volunteer in them??!!!!!!"

really dont understand this paragraph at all, and i have made no suggstion at ANYONE being happy at this scenario - in fact quite the opposite

"And if poorer communities can't fight for their local library,..."
now hold on a minute i didn't say they can't fight for their local library

"... maybe that's because they don't use it. If they do use it, then I fail to see how they are incapable of fighting for it to stay open. Or do you actually want the Green Welly brigade to march in and interfere with other peoples' communities to keep their libraries open for them, because they're incapable of doing it themselves???"

no i think you will find, i clearly said that these libraries will close and the poor communities will do without.

apart from arguing for arguments sake, i'm not really sure what your argument is?