Historic night for Scotland

[fartingfran]

Spine tingling stuff!

Please vote against independence or the many decent people of England will be shafted by the Tories in perpetuity.

i don't think even eck wants independence right now!

What would happen if Scotland became independant - would it be able to support it's self as a country?
What would be the benefit to Scotland becoming independant?

This is a genuine question by the way - I have no feeling one way or the other about Scotland!

Wow cedar, keep telling yourself that propaganda and then try and work into your tiny brain where the extra money is coming from to pay off the huge debt. You stay south of the border, there are plenty of decent English neighbours to make sure narrow-minded little bigots such as yourself are nothing more than an unpleasant stain. If you want to look at it that way we are all worth at least £160,000 more than you any day of the week. You want figures then go google to find out how many billions per day pour out of our oil fields. My cousin works fairly high in the pecking order of a big multinational oil company. Salmond is very highly regarded by the foreign owners, he has been working his little socks off in the background to ensure...actually why am I even bothering explaining this to you. Make an effort and look it up yourself you ignoramus!

If you replace Scotland in your rant with any other country you'd be looking at racism accusations. Your the type of clown who goes on holiday to Spain and asks for egg and chips then wonders why no one wants to talk to you.

I do wish for independence in my lifetime. This is the opportunity to show what can be done. I'd vote yes and most of the people I know would vote yes. This is not and never has been anything against the English but with poisonous attitudes like cedar maybe it should be.

GeekCool, fyi the SNP have never voted on policies that concern the English only. Part of who they are.

Labour rely on Scottish MPs who have no right to tell the English what to do!

I am delighted they got in. I haven't been able to vote Labour since the whole Tony Blair/Iraq war debacle. I rather half heartedly voted LibDem a couple of times.

I voted SNP this time. I really like my local MSP and he has been at the door canvassing for my vote. He didn't say anything negative about Labour which impressed me. I like Alex Salmond quite a lot TBH.

I really hope it will give the Labour party a boot up the arse. I feel Labour is where I naturally belong but they have totally lost their way. They are so full of vitriol for the Nationalists that, for me, they really can't see past it to come up with any interesting, imaginative policy language that will appeal to me.

I don't think I would vote for independence.

I know Cedar was annoying but Scotland will be a failed state in many ways if it seeks full independence. Are you really going to let your children have to try and manage the financial consequences of it? I am not a Conservative and do not work for some embryonic 'no' campaign, just feel genuinely concerned for the people who would gave to operate with pretty much no welfare state, few educational opportunities and no influence on the world stage.

ok ok we get it, now fuck off with the slagging of scotland. i am starting to want independence if it means getting shot of this shit

Some people seem to have forgotten that it was the banks who got us into this economic hole, not the governments. Small nations can still be strong.

Personally, I would never ask my neighbour to look after my money, or to decide how to run my affairs, which is why I would like to see independence. It's time to "be a nation again"...

If that was directed at me BC then it was pretty uncalled for. I have lived most of my life in Scotland and love it. It's a pretty sad day when we can't discuss a few home truths about the place without getting sworn at. Not a great advert for the country.

notyummy my grandchildren will be paying for the failed state that put us in this debt! So that argument is invalid!

Cedar was not annoying he/she was insulting. Very insulting and maybe we shouldn't shrug our shoulders anymore at people like that. It wouldn't have been accepted had she/he said it about Muslims.

That's a nice line in a TV ad K999, buts its not a reasonable exposition of the ability of a nation to pay for the needs of its citizens. People can be as patriotic as they like (and there is a lot to be proud of) but it doesn't pay the bills. It's a hard fact.

Two - the current debt issue is one thing, and yes, both banks and the government have a hand in that.

The ability of Scotland to fund itself even if the debt crisis hadn't occured is kind of at the heart of the issue, and would still lead to huge hardship in the long term even if the coffers weren't currently empty.

We'll see. I, for one, am just so chuffed that SNP have a majority. It's the best result I could have hoped for. And hopefully the SNP can build on that and move forward with their plans for Scotland.

Getting back to the op, what an amazing victory for SNP, I do think that it says a lot about the big three parties failure to make an effort to be positive and want to represent the people that vote for them - SNP are positive and looking to the future, lets see how they manage before we start all the negative rubbish, the referendum is not happening today or tomorrow, we have plenty of time to debate it, and let everyone drag up their own political rhetoric about independence.

69 seats?

Tory vote down by 5% (won't they be glad of proportional representation or they would probably have even fewer seats?)

I voted SNP for the first time ever.
I'ts always been LD up here but after the whole coalition debacle, they lost my vote. I'm in the Highlands by the way, an LB stronghold.
As for independance, I'm very much let's see what happens. I don't mind the union, nations should be getting together not separating.
As for posts like Cedar's. well aren't we all used to Scotsbashing now?
I've just seen Kelvin Mackenzie's usual rant against the Scots on the BBC.
It's apparently allowed.

I don't think a vote for SNP is a vote for independance and think they'll put off a referendum for as long as they can. I voted SNP because, living in Scotland, I think they are the only party who really believe in the future of this country and they were the only ones who ran a positive campaign. I also think that they have done a really good job in the past few years. I don't believe in independance.

Tap is right - they won fair and square. I hope they govern well - and yes it is early days. These things do effect the medium/long term now though - like the strategies of big multinationals looking potentially to site in Scotland....and I am afraid I think it doesn't effect their decision making in a positive way.

Gin - you make a good point. The polls seem to show that many feel the same way as you.

NotMummy, what multinationals are you talking about?

I saw that rant also LadyBeagleEyes......I'm surprised they gave it airtime.

I'm delighted that SNP have had such an astounding victory...but I hope it doesn't mean they lose sight of the good relationships they built up with certain parties before they had an overall majority.

As far as Independence goes....it will go to a referendum and it will be for the Scottish people to decide what they want...but that referendum wont take place for some time, I can guarantee that. Alec Salmond isn't daft, he knows that now is not the right time for a referendum, his administration need to further prove themselves to the Scottish people and show in detail that we can support ourselves - that aside, a referendum Bill will need to be written and consulted upon before a referendum can actually take place and that could take well over a year.

re the funding thing...

wish i could find it, but there was a study done by a Harvard prof last year that demonstrated that this 'oh we prop up scotland' thing is bullshit and that if you take into account ALL the monies that go from scotland to the crown, ie VAT, road tax etc then we Scots are putting in slightly more than our share. we've pretty much been lied to by the english, it seems.which makes more sense than not, if we're so shit why didn't they ditch us long ago. they're not a sentimental bunch in westminster.

Manufacturers in particular, and any big industry that will have to make a large investment in infrastructure to set up operations. Basically they like to ensure that their investment will be 'safe' in terms of the credit worthiness of the country they are coming to if any sort of state assistance (eg training/road building) is involved in the negotiations of the package (which it will be for many companies. )

They will set up operations in a 'second world' state where infrastructure isn't as well developed because they know they will get a very cheap (and potentially highly skilled if somewhere like India) workforce. What they DONT want is a place where the labour is not that comparatively cheap, and there is uncertainty over the future of that countr. A general election is one thing - a potential future declaration of independence is another.

i just came on to make the same point as Aitch, if England were propping us up, Cameron would be tripping over himself to ditch us.