Police pay protesters may take to streets

[breadandbutterfly]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8369874/Police-pay-protesters-may-take-to-streets.html

Who's hoping they get kettled?

Who will there be to kettle them?

Students doing their volunteering thing for the Big Society.

Is it my impression or is Politics section quite moribund lately?

Actually I don't think it is funny at all.Am not a police officer,but I do work in the public sector.I think they are being right royally shafted TBH.From my understanding they are facing HUGE budget cuts and staff cuts (like other public sector).They are an essential public service and do a shitty job under high pressure.

(Waits for the "Oh but they get good pension etc" to comment)

and yes I do know the country is in dire economic circs etc.

Yep I agree that the Police are facing massive cuts along with other public sector departments. But that was inevitable really with the fact that only the NHS budget was said to be "ring fenced"

A real shame for sure but we don't really have a credible alternative.

I suppose not

I was in a bad mood when I answered the op TBH,they were probably joking but it really gets my goat how many public sector job bashing threads there are on here recently.Maybe SOME of the police were overzealous with the student demos but not all,and tbh if some little spoiled middle class rich kid dropped a fire extinguisher on my head then I would feel like retaliating.People should have the right to peaceful protest of course but you always get a few idiots who take it too far.

Mavis no, it isn't funny. No one is laughing, well, at least I'm not.

However the police are in the same boat as many of those in the public sector. I am deeply opposed to cuts on so many levels, but lots of people don't seem to be able to put a face on the cuts and have this idea that it will only affect public sector workers hidden away somewhere . Yes, the police are a vital public service, but so are many other services.

Judging by some of the comments yesterday, the way police pay is organised at the moment, something had to give whether the finance was cut or not. Getting paid double-time for a Bank Holiday and getting a day of in lieu is not something you'd find elsewhere, for example. No government has ever successfully faced down the police.... will be interesting to see who blinks first.

we've had overtime cut for years - to be honest police could cut some time they spend out of the roads arresting people for pathetic driving offences or because someone swore at them outside a nightclub

It's all been interestingly reported. It seems to ignore the fact that different police services do things differently. DH is a copper. They do not get overtime ever in our force unless it's a specific operation. They only ever get days off in lieu. And quite often they do an extra 4hrs on the end of a 12hr shift and get bugger all for it apart from a headache. They do not get bonuses either. DH is always ed by what other forces get (coughTheMetcough).

And their brilliant pension, they do also pay for. DH pays absolutely huge amounts into his pension, to the federation and for personal insurance/union membership and not only are they going to freeze pay, cut jobs and review spending, his pension contributions are going up another 3% and the civilian staff they rely on are looking at a very dim chance of hanging on to their jobs.

DH will get on with it and suck it up. He loves his job and accepts that these things have to happen.

But when you read the reports, try to rememeber that there isn't one police authority handing out gold plated pensions, overtime and bonuses. Some rural forces are already very different and their officers are struggling.

Oh and those police you don't like who are dealing with 'pathetic driving offences'. One, stop committing the offences. Two, they're roads police. They aren't safer neighbourhoods or response or CID or anybody else neglecting their own jobs.

The OP wasn't having a pop at the police I don't think. She/he was commenting on the irony of a government that's cutting all vital services and finally uniting the police and the other protesters. You need the law enforcers on your side in any revolution so, personally, I say to them get out and protest ALONGSIDE everyone else.

Divide and rule is getting tedious now. It shouldn't be one group of victims of the cuts against another - it should be a united front.

I wasn't responding to the op but to the story in general and to statements like "to be honest police could cut some time they spend out of the roads arresting people for pathetic driving offences" and "Getting paid double-time for a Bank Holiday and getting a day of in lieu is not something you'd find elsewhere, for example" from other posters. Pointing out that the reported way of things isn't universal across forces, in fact it's not even the representative way in which most services are structured.

If it's true that the pay structures are not universal across forces then surely that's even more of a reason to reform them and make things more consistent?

I wonder if my mates and I could turn up on horseback and charge at them....?

No, thought not.

Chil, they won't ever be universal as the different forces need to work differently due to the areas they are in. A rural constabulary is very different to an urban constabulary so it makes sense. And it's not pay structures, they are universal (unless you're in London), it's things like overtime, bonuses, time off in lieu etc.

I just had the privilege to sit on a bus yesterday for an hour listening to some women saying well now we know what John at no7 is really earning, it's all come out, all that overtime and bonuses, cushy life etc and it struck me that people are probably assuming that the reported figures are 'facts' of police pay/lifestyle when each police authority does things differently.

I think maybe some things could be more consistent but what they're worried will happen is that forces who don't have overtime payouts and massive bonuses atm, still have to make the same level of cuts and they just can't easily do it. It will mean a loss of officers and front line services.

Hm, that came over as overly trite.

I think the police handling of the student fee protests was appalling, and given the fact that public sector cuts were inevitable, I don't think the force did itself many favours there, as I'm not sure how they can now protest without looking hypocritical.

I think unless you work on the frontline of any ps job you cannot imagine how crappola it is and how much we are stretched anyhows.Most people I know often do unpaid O/T an odd hour or so that doesn't get put down because often you cannot just drop everything and leave.These jobs are already stretched to the max (have been NHS for 15 yrs).I think public perception is that it is a cushy number with pensions/hols etc. but it isn't about being proactive sadly,it is all about crisis management and firefighting.no staff no beds,running on skeleton staff,already it is like this,sure it is the same at frontline for other services.The future really scares me cos at end of day if owt goes wrong it is the poor sod on the frontline who loses their registration/or gets at the end of a complaint.Most people i know go above and beyond and don't claim the overtime etc.Its crap

There was a huge expansion of the public sector under Labour. Now the reason for that of course was noble and whether or not it was a good idea or not will depend on your personal politics. But the fact remains that it was an expansion which we cannot afford by our economy.

And spending money is easy. Spending money smartly is not. So any idiot MP can spend billions of pounds on the police, NHS, councils but that doesn't necessarily improve anything. What was the first thing the NHS did when they got their billions extra from New Labour? Gave themselves payrises and spent billions on an IT system which 13 years later still doesn't work!

So yes we must cut and it is inevitable we will lose frontline staff. I wish we didn't. But to me, the question is whether we should have had those positions in the first place if we couldn't afford them.

I disagree, it doesn't have to be inevitable that front line jobs are lost.

With the NHS, the Conservatives were in talks with big American Health insurance companies as far back as 2004. Why? not because they had a crystal ball that foretold the future. These cuts and the attack on public services is fuelled by idealogy.

I suspect that by this time next year they will need police who are on side, well paid and happy to quell all future protests. What I think they may have is a disenfranchised, reduced and quite frankly indifferent service. Yippee, if that's what it takes!

I wish you are right Queen. I'd much rather a "ethnic cheerleader diversity equality officer" was cut than a constable. But in practice they'll bloody stay whilst the copper won't.

I gather you like to think of yourself as a bit of a diy economist mr niceguy

So with every job lost,even the community, youth, unemployment, child care, social workers, nurses, health care assistants, librarians, armed forces....... along with it the tax take on those wages, rising food and fuel costs, the likes of which some famillies are even cutting back on essentials, heaven help any business in the service sector. I can't afford to get my nails done now! so what is the eventual outlook for raising money through taxation? Its looking pretty grim isn't it.

Only one way from there then, further shrink the economy. Unless of course dear old dave has some great plan to retrain me (social worker) so I can earn money for Bob at Barclays or sell some other landfill commodity for a basic wage that will only just by a McDs if I'm lucky.

by=buy!

"Its looking pretty grim isn't it"

But how 'grim' would it look with an alternative strategy that meant we kept spending at the previous rate? Not even the Labour party advocated that. Pre-election Alistair Darling promised cuts 'worse than during the Thatcher era' (I paraphrase). They may complain from the sidelines about everything but, truth is, that if it were PM Gordon Brown still rather than PM David Cameron, the situation would not be all that different. There would be some subtle differences in which areas were cut and there may not be some of the organisational reforms that we're seeing, but trying to lay it all at the door of 'ideology' is missing the point, I think.

Hi Queen. I'm no economist although I have studied it in my younger days.....much younger days!

Yes there will be a dip in tax take from the lost jobs. However, the tax which the public sector worker paid came from the salary which is paid from the government tax revenues in the first place. So its not the same as the loss of tax from a private sector job. Of course you can argue that benefits will cost just as much, if not more than the salaries but we all hope that benefits will be temporary and soon they will be gainfully employed in the private sector.

The problem is that right now we have an almost perfect storm. Confidence is through the floor and usually this is where the govt would rip open the chequebook and splash some cash. Except we don't have any! El-Gordo spent it all during the good times as he thought there would never be bad.

So I laugh when I read that the next budget will be "pro-growth" because they've earmarked £50m for investment. That's a drop in the ocean. They need to seriously cut taxes and regulations but not sure they can afford it, both politically and economically. Any tax cut will be seen as Tories looking after their rich mates.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for the police. Zero. Nada. I was one of those attacked by the police whilst innocently minding my own business in the vague vicinity of the student protests, so frankly it serves them right if the govt they supported to the point of violence against innocent protesters and bystanders now takes aim at them. They should have seen it coming - or were they naive enough to think the cuts would only affect students and not them?

Public sector workers I support generally - I am one. But police, no.

It wasn't all police officers that did that to u was it?!