Police pay protesters may take to streets

[breadandbutterfly]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8369874/Police-pay-protesters-may-take-to-streets.html

Who's hoping they get kettled?

SharonGless Yes. Isn't that enough?

No it isn't.
That does not indicate a hell of a lot of dross.

dotnet, the police do a very dangerous job where they come into contact with armed criminals. they take greater risks than other public servants. Most police are very polite and fair compared to police forces in other countries.

The kettling is not down to individual police officers. It is a policy created from above, and the ordinary police implement it. The ultimate responsibility lies with government, not with police officers.

dotnet, I think you are basing your opinions on one particular experience you may or may not have had.

No one can judge a whole profession on a few - in your profession are all employees devoid of poor practice, without fail? (apologies if you do not work and have no concept of professionalism).

Look, I'm talkin about what I saw which I found bad - there's not much point going off side tracks and moaning about lesser matters like sloppy response at the counter, which looks like rudeness (I've encountered this as well.)

You clearly think there's nothing to worry about with our police force. But you're very wrong. The violent types MUST be thrown out. Has the man who nearly killed Alfie Meadows (brain surgery) been sentenced to a long term in prison yet? Thought not. Is a trial coming up? You may know - I don't, I haven't heard anything (it's a genuine question.)

What about the psycho who dragged a paraplegic out of his wheelchair and along the ground? Fortunately, it seems another one (or several) who smashed a 20 year old student in the face with a riot shield and broke one of his teeth, WILL get some sort of punishment, being as someone back at the office at the (?) Crown Prosecution Service listened to the conversation which went on between coppers as they assaulted him.

I do work, but only part time. I'm not so very far off retirement. And - I think I know what's behind that question- no, I DON'T claim benefits. I've attended two of the student demonstrations in London.

Incidentally, I've just heard on Radio 4 that the students who start university in England in 2012 will find themselves in a position where, if on graduation they earn one thousand pounds a year above 'the norm' (by which I presume is meant £1,000 above the £21,000 starting point for repaying tuition) - then they will end up paying twice as much as they borrow, and still they will have £14,000 debt to be written off when they reach retirement. So your own kid/s will find themselves in deep debt in the future. Mine only 'escaped' because she's an existing student. Shouldn't YOU have taken a day off work to demonstrate in support of your own child/ren, or of your nephew/s or nieces?

These are kids who haven't earned any money yet, being plunged into massive personal debt. It just isn't ethical. So, sorry, I can't get upset about well paid police taking a hit, especially when next to nothing is seemingly being done to throw out the shits among them. The government (and the police)are metaphorically, and sometimes physically, hurting our children. It's disgraceful.

I'm not arguing that all the police are a dangerous rabble, but don't YOU think that a serious weeding-out should be done, for the safety of society?

dotnet, the police do systematically weed out those whose behaviour is unacceptable. Those officers who deserve to get sacked are. Standards are high and complaints are taken seriously and investigated.

It is the courts who are not convicting people or punishing them appropriately so I think your argument lies with them if you are sure there are assaults to be dealt with.
The question about you working was about how much experience you have in working in an environment where service matters.It just seemed to me from your comments that you appear to have no experience of working in an organisation (or you are in one where everyone acts professionally and perfectly all day?).
To say there is dross and that the Police are ignorant and arrogant says more about your lack of knowledge. Please let me know what you do for a living so I can generalise and make wild accusations about you.

scurry,you are just being silly here! Was I making wild generalisations when I cited Alfie Meadows, Jody McIntyre (wheelchair user) and the 20 year old who was smashed in the face by a riot shield (that case has been on the radio just in the last couple of days.)

The police DIDN'T systematically weed out the pair of police jokers in Northampton who failed to attend when a woman was being killed, did they? And the previous night one of them had been playing about when he was supposedly on duty - he'd gone off looking at houses instead! Those two Northampton police, according to the Northamptonshire high-up who was interviewed on Radio Four, - got a 'final warning' which will lie on their files for eighteen months, after which it'll be wiped out, if they keep their noses clean in the meantime!

No wonder the R4 journalist asked the woman 'What exactly do you have to do to get the sack in your area police force?'

She didn't reply.

You are giving examples that need investigation.

You were generalising about this being applicable to every police officer and calling officers dross, arrogant and ignorant and I objected to that.

Of course those officers should be dealt with.(Not being where you should be is not always a sackable offence, though).

Are you able to enlighten us as to what you do for a living?

I am able to enlighten you as to what I do for a living, of course I am, but I'm not going to, because it is irrelevant. I've had quite a long working life and have done about a dozen different jobs - varied ones, too - if that is of any interest.

Please reread my earlier posts. In my final para from 07.36 today, I said 'I'm not arguing that all the police are a dangerous rabble...' and in the one before that (I'm not going back a page because I think if I do I'll lose what I'm writing now) - I said something similar a couple of times.

But, being as you think I'm saying all police officers are dross, let me just say one more time - that is NOT what I believe. The majority are fine I should think, and doing an OK job. But a thorough weeding out is needed to get rid of the bad and dangerous ones who have made their existence so evident in recent months.

Ah, ok...."she didn't reply".

We're not talking about me, we're talking about the scumbag element in the police force, of whom I'm deeply ashamed and a bit frightened and particularly frightened for our children. That's the topic. End of.

So in one breath you say you are not generalising and then you come back with a comment like that.

If you make comments like that, you need to be prepared for them to be challenged.

Oh, and you are not a moderator [wink}

scurryfunge generalise...' To make general: to include under a general term...'

Element.... 'a member of a unit or structure...'

Sorry to have been so anally retentive, but you are just making Miss rather cross. I did use the word 'element' in my last post.

When you were at school did the teacher constantly harp on at you for not reading the question properly? You aren't taking in what you read!

Poor marks I'm afraid.

dotnet, I think you need to move away from the thread now....it is clearly bothering you if you are getting so cross.

Read back on your own posts sweetheart and you may realise why people take offence.

I also think you are bringing issues from another thread where you were equally ignorant and quite rightly challenged- bad form on MN to do that.

I need to go to work now so I will have to love you and leave you.

Hope you read your paperwork carefully scurryfunge!
Bye!

Apropos the police. Did Smiley Culture really stab himself in the heart? What the hell was all that about?

I'm coming to realise that if you express certain opinions on MN that go beyond chuntering conformist cliches then you get the kind of treatment dotnet's had here and I've had countless times which is quite bizarre as you'd think people holding mainstream, pat views would be more secure in those views and so wouldn't be on the defensive and sneering as scurryfunge has been. Hey ho.

Coppers CAN be corrupt, violent and criminals themselves. Fact. Otherwise you're getting into a lazy, binary, reductive way of (not) thinking that gets all of us nowhere.

Thankyou glasnost, that was really nice of you to say that!

As far as I can see dotnet hasn't had any "treatment". There is a difference of opinions that's all, where those of us who are police officers and proud to be so, are giving our point of view. Dotnet has said that she has had limited experience of the police recently which has given her a negative view. The OP is about the right for police officers to object to the way that they are being treated over pay.I have tried to explain that the tabloid spin is not what it seems.

The minority of corrupt and violent people who are police officers (and it is a minority) should be dealt with and harshly at that. They are a disgrace and totally undermine what the police stand for. I cannot abide people like that whether or not they wear a uniform. However you cannot tarnish all officers with the same brush.

I am sorry that you have had the experiences you have had and on behalf of the majority I apologise. However please don't think we are all like that. Some of us work damn hard and above the call of duty. Suffice to say that I attribute some of my PND to PTSD, which I hadn't dealt with or recognised, due to a number of child deaths that I dealt with in a relatively short period of time. I have been threatened with a firearm and a screwdriver on separate occasions as well as assaulted a number of times.

No profession is without those who give it a bad name. Please don't judge us all by those who do.

SharonGless Really, I don't! That was what I kept on trying to explain to scurry, but she didn't seem to take it in.

Your second paragraph expresses exactly how I feel, and it is really good to know that you as a police officer feel as strongly as you do on that
subject.

Really sorry you had PND, it's a horrible thing, and I hope you're mostly through it now.

dotnet. you are being wilfully ignorant here.

I was also trying to express how you cannot tar all officers with the same brush. I think you are slowly coming round to the idea that the vast majority of officers do a great job and that the police service does deal with the criminal few (same as any other profession).

SharonG reiterates what I have expressed and I am glad that although you find it difficult to agree with anything I say (previous threads at work there, I feel!), you acknowledge that it is imprudent to judge without fact.

The majority of police officers are on your side and want the criminal few (and it is a few) dealt with appropriately.

Please do not make assumptions about how I deal with people.

If the majority of the Police Force want to remove the bad apples how come over 50 people have died in Police custody yet no Police officer has "seen" what happened or more likely they have colluded in a cover up, no one could believe they were all "accidents".

No officer has come forward in the Blair Peach, Tomlinson (spor Alfie Meadows case either to report a fellow officers brutality.

They just close rank and protect the guilty.

Hi newwave - is that really right, no-one has reported who the cop was who nearly killed Alfie Meadows? I was hoping that case was trundling through to trial. I asked a couple of times on MN if anyone had heard the latest, but no-one said anything.

What about the man who dragged Jody McIntyre from his wheelchair - have you heard or read anything about him? Do any of the coppers reading this know whether he's coming up for trial - he was caught on camera, there's no way he has been left unidentified, is there? But I've heard absolutely nothing about that case either, since it happened.

dotnet, when it comes to Police brutality/corruption/dereliction of duty the normal route by the Police complaints authority is foot dragging followed by a trip to B&Q for a bulk order of whitewash and a large carpet to sweep the facts under.

If they have to act then a slapped hand appears to be the maximum sentence.

This has to change - it has to. I'm guessing dozens of police officers know exactly who assaulted Alfie Meadows - word gets around. Someone with a bad conscience could still come forward - but will they? I'm not holding my breath.

Everyone reading this who goes to Saturday's demonstration should take a camera with them if they can, in case of any more dangerous/threatening bahaviour against innocent demonstrators.

Mind you newwave it may be it was the Police Complaints Authority which released the info about the assailants of the 20-year old who was smashed with a riot shield/s. So the evidence didn't go to them and get 'lost' in that instance?

I wish all our police were, as I think SharonGless is, honourable and fair and prepared to shop the corrupt and violent ones.

I hope the dodgy ones have been deselected from attending at Saturday's demonstration,which will be big and where the policing needs to be better and safer than the poor students experienced in numerous instances.

Fingers crossed.

The only good thing to come out of cuts in general is that there is a huge amount of bad spending and inequality. Labour set up so many quangos and bodies to distribute funding to one area and all the people employed have been getting paid. The paperwork etc has been ridiculous. Streamlining is necessary real cuts are not!

The Police have a fantastic deal and although they have a difficult job some of the time being paid overtime for a Sunday etc is not on, it's part of the job lot. Their pension deal has cost me my pension so I can't be sympathetic.

I hope they do demonstrate because I would love to see them kettled! Preferably by students who were kept kettled for hours - they had first hand experience to see how it works.:o