To census or not to census

[winstonsmith]

Join the boycott.

Who ever said it was just a tory trick? Right wing was New Labour too IMO and they started the whole surveillance culture ball rolling.

They're all in it together.

Sometimes convoluted explanations are to be taken into consideration as life and people are rarely that simple. Especially when there's devious politicians and greedy arms manufacturers involved.

X posted Coalition I really don't know. If you want I'll get my friend to join MN and elaborate but he is a tad conspiracy theorist. And so wouldn't trust MN. Especially now they're going to be advertising McDonald's apparently.

The problem with 'They are all in it together' is that you rapidly arrive at a conspiracy so big, powerful and omnipresent that basically it's just not worrying about.

Like Claigs "Communism was a capitalist conspiracy/Global warming is a cover for dealing with the problems of overpopulation/limited resources" where the consequences of her being right are exactly the same as those of being wrong.

It's too easy to fall into the trap of assuming that because SOME people in positions of authority are venal, corrupt and dishonest that they all are.

OK so I'll worry my little head with the price of nappies then. You sound like my OH Coalition. ARE you he in a bid to stop me MNetting while breastfeeding.........hence no Q marks!

Ah - MORE conspiracy theories

Very good.

Loving this thread, some of the posters on here are as mad as hatters!

I will be filling in the census because whilst there is a small chance that the data will get used at some point in the future to round up a minority and cart them off, or to help a foreign country to target where to bomb, I think it is a fairly small risk. TBH most of the info that a determined enemy would want is already there for the taking, just in different forms.

However, the data will definitely be used by local councils, services and government to plan and budget for the population. I see it as much more likely that my DC will not be able to find a school place or be able to see a doctor when needed or will struggle on overcrowded, underfunded public transport because those setting the budgets have inaccurate data to base their choices on.

If you decide you feel more strongly about the CIA, big brother argument then boycott the census, but as someone else said, don't then complain that in years to come there isn't the local service provision you require, as having boycotted the census will have been a contributing factor for why that service isn't available to you.

If you decide that you want to prioritise the provision of public services, like me, then complete the census and continue to hope that we won't ever be in a position where the data is used against us.

You can't have it both ways.

Well said TinkyWinky.

I completely agree TinkyWinky. You've restored my faith in MNetters after that lot on the McDonald's threads. Very balanced and true I think.

Although that last bit about continuing to HOPE we won't ever be in a position...etc is a tad scary.

Why do people insist on blaming the coalition for this census.

This census has been planned and refined for the last 10 years.

The census rehearsal was in 2009 under the LABOUR government this was when the final decisions on the questions were taken.

The coaltion has a better track record than labour with personal information after all it was this government who scrapped the national ID card and scaled down the information that will be on the NHS SCRs

Oh FGS. There is not a choice.

I will say this very slowly for those who are struggling with the concept:

It..is.. a.. census.., it.. is.. not.. a.. new.. thing.. There have been censuses for more than 150 years.

All these people full of their own self importance piss me right off. NOBODY cares what your answers are on an individual - get it? NOBODY. Right? It is about identifying general trends, there is nothing sinister about it.

As for anyone stupid enough to say they are too busy. Well they're not too busy to moan on here about it.

Rarely has anything pissed me off more than this.

I think everyone's gone from this thread now, but it might just be worth mentioning (if anyone is lurking forlornly like I am) that the Scottish census is different, and you have to answer questions about your national identity, ie do you consider yourself to be 'Scottish' or 'Other British'? But what if you feel half Scottish and half Irish? Also what if your father is a black Russian and your mother is a bilingual mixed race Philippina cross with some Catholic Kenyan? Eh?

And why on earth do they want to know?

"And why on earth do they want to know"

It's not just on the Scottish census that those questions crop up. There's a difference between birthplace, nationality and ethnicity. For the entire history of the census, we've only been asked for the first one but, in a multicultural, multi-ethnic society, birthplace alone doesn't provide a complete enough picture for planning purposes.

Mellowfruitfulness - I think it says tick all that apply.

No, we had to choose one for who we identified with (or ethnicity or whatever), but we could tick all that apply for the other nationality question. Or maybe it was the other way round. We spent ages trying to work out what to tick.

And that's another thing - it's not that easy to fill in, and does take ages if you don't just tick Scottish.

Also, is it actually legal for them to say they will fine us if we don't fill it in? Is there a law in the UK that says that you can be fined for not filling in a form?

Very tempted to call everyone in the family Ahmed and see what happens. Would they be round in a flash to offer us nice comfy alternative accommodation in a detention centre? Come to think of it, if everyone in my family was called Ahmed, I probably would feel quite uneasy about the census.

OK, I'll take your word for it. I've only scanned ours, not filled it in yet.

But for your other comment, come on! There is clearly a law in the UK that says you can be fined for not filling in a CENSUS form. A bit like you can't be fined by the Govt for not paying a bill, but you can be fined for not paying a TAX bill.

What's with all the teenage rebelliousness on Mumsnet?

gaelicsheep it's not teenage rebellion. It's called having an inquisitive, enquiring mind and not just unthinkingly, meekly aquiescing to what a few dodgy people in power tell us to do. mellowfruitfulness is right to express these reservations and her last sentence is very resonant, I feel.

I thik it's more appropriate to say what's with all this vacuous conformism on Mumsnet?

'I think it's more appropriate to say what's with all this vacuous conformism on Mumsnet?'

Agree entirely, I too think that there is too much Guardian reading on Mumsnet.

and wielding of laptops by harpies.

Now you see I have an inquisitive, enquiring mind and I'm quite interested in the social trends of the country, both now and in the past. Hence I can see the value of the census.

Do any of the naysayers have supermarket loyalty cards I wonder? Presumably not because of the invasion of privacy.

Thanks, Glasnost.

The things that worry me about this census have all been mentioned before, but just to sum up what I don't like about it:
It's being run by a dodgy US company that also sells arms = the info is not secure.
I don't trust the reasons given for why we need so many questions. (I've never minded filling it in before). They say it's for planning services but if they need to know how many children there are, they can go to the registry office. If they need to find out how many hospitals we need, they can look at the waiting lists. Even if they did find out that we need more schools or hospitals, it's not like anyone has any money (they say) to build new ones anyway. And even if they find out that your whole family is disabled, they are not going to send in an army of care workers.

Nothing is going to change as a result of this survey, except that all our personal information is going to be on one giant database that could be sold to the highest bidder or get 'lost'.

Questions like number of rooms etc can be useful for sociological research etc, but the info can be found more easily elsewhere.

So why are they spending so much money on it? I heard/read somewhere that it would cost less to go ahead with it than not to, but I can't see how that is the case.

Clearly one of the main reasons for some of the questions is to find out how many ethnic minorities, especially Muslims, are living in the UK. That could be harmless or even useful info in the right hands, but it could also be extremely harmful in the wrong hands.

And I agree with Glasnost that we have to question things and not let the authorities bully us.

It's their own fault if we don't trust the government. I really really want to, because I'd like to think they have our best interests at heart - as I always have done before. But my confidence has been severely shaken by the lies this lot have told, from tuition fees to selling off our precious NHS.

I totally forgot. Can I still fill it in past the deadline ?