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Politics

To census or not to census

172 replies

winstonsmith · 28/02/2011 15:59

Join the boycott.

OP posts:
winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 10:50

Lockheed won the contract ihavewellies. simple. worth £150 million which is nothing for an immensely lucrative arms company such as they.

the Office of National Statistics awarded this contract in 2008 and despite protests and petitions the decision has never been reversed.

i'm not advocating anyone to boycott this census but i am passionately for people being fully informed of the facts. the other thread on the census is very informative and put me onto this in the first place. here's another link in case those Guardian bashers among you think this is bias.

census-security-US-firm-processing-details-stole-O bamas-student-records.html

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BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 10:53

Thanks for those questions bullet - interesting reading (and I know not to have anyone staying over night on the 27th March unless I want to have to fill more of the form in Grin)

Can't see anything particularly outlandish or wild or random on there - can think of reasons for all of those questions, carers, populations size, population movement, employment, etc etc

bullet234 · 01/03/2011 10:55

I would like to know why they wanted the contract. If the census is purely designed to give an accurate portrayal of current situations, in order for the correct allocation of facilities, then why would a major corporation from a different country want to do it? Why was it given to them? At the risk of sounding naive, surely the information could just as easily have been collated by Civil Servants or local government officials - ie the ones who would have had a greater awareness of how best to use the information in the necessary ways.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 10:55

atually I' not bothered if they steal my details -

"ok look at a no-body living in the midlans of England has 3 children, is unemployed, currently seperated, isn't a carer, doesn't have a car, and has a reasonable level of education" - woopee doo

(although as TA says in 100yrs time someone may well want to research and find the information useful.

winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 10:56

can't get the hang of this bloody linking biz.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360987/Fears-UK-census-security-US-firm-processing-details-stole-Obamas-student-records.html

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BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 10:58

bullet - they wanted the contract for £££'s - the're a business - that's why businesses bid for these things.

Given our current civil servants and local gorvernment officials can't even collate information about one particular person - I'm not sure how you think they'd managed it without having to spend ££££££££££££££'s just on setting up a system to do it.........Lockheed presumably has the system for collating the information already in place.

We don't have a good track record in this country of setting up databases with any degree of success when it's done by Civil Servants or Local Government officials

MrsKwazii · 01/03/2011 11:01

Bullet, the census is a massive data-processing task. Compiling and inputting the information for 60 million people is a huge undertaking, and as it's only once every ten years, isn't something that the civil service or local government is geared up to do.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 11:02

They also have a UK base (can't remember what the word for it is Blush) They have a registered UK company here that was set up in 1999

winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 11:04

they wanted the contract for £££££££££££££? a company that spent $13.7 million on lobbying ALONE in 2009 does NOT need the paltry £150 million for the census.

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HattiFattner · 01/03/2011 11:10

money for old rope, thats why they bid for the contract! They've already developed all the methods and controls and systems to read and analyse the data from the USA census (308million people) and the Canada census (34million people) so why not flog the same knowledge to the Brits for a little more money? Thats good business sense, in my book. The USA spent $14.5 Billion on their census - we are just using the
technology and experience from those census providers, rather than develop a bespoke solution.

winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 11:13

Lockheed's yearly revenue is $39,620,000,000.

anyone out there really think they need the census peanuts? come on now.

and i beleve HattiFattner is working for Capita on the census so is perhaps not quite so impartial

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BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 11:13

I presumed the UK company had different accounts to the US one.

And no - they might not "need" it - but that doesn't generally stop businesses bidding for projects just because they don't "need" the money - it's a big contract - it's natural that a company with the capabilities to carry out the work would want to bid for it.

And it seems looking at the Lockheed UK company website they were involved in the 2001 capturing too. Using technology from the US census that involved 147million forms.

bemybebe · 01/03/2011 11:17

My problem with census is that there is too much detailed personal information stored in one place.

BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 11:17

And looking fruther it's the the UK company that has won this contract too.

Could you tell me Lockeed UK limiteds yearly revenue please seen as though it's that company that has won the contract (it is a ltd company in its own right).

Not sure why you think that Hatti would be biased just because she's managed to get one of 1000's of census collector jobs with Capita?

winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 11:18

yes and i wish i'd known they were involved with the previous census Baroque. hallelujah for having a baby and discovering MN! you learn alot on here.

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winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 11:22

YOU google that Baroque. i've got a baby to look after. as i said previously I'M boycotting the census on a matter of principle. once you've seen the images of children dismembered and killed by Lockheed bombs, fighter planes, cluster bombs etc to say carrying out the census becomes morally problematic is a euphemism............for me, anyway.

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BaroqueAroundTheClock · 01/03/2011 11:25

why stop at the census - you know that Lockheed won't be the only company involved in government business/data collection that has exceedingly questionable morals??

At "once I've seen" - I've seen them thanks Hmm

poorbuthappy · 01/03/2011 11:33

But using all the other products/services that Lockheed are involved in doesn't bother you?

CHrist talk about picking your morals.

Well I hope I don't get to knock on your door to ask why you haven't returned the form. I'm gonna really struggle to keep a straight face...

mamatomany · 01/03/2011 11:34

The thing is if you boycott them, like the Nestle boycott they couldn't care less and on this occasion you'll get a fine.

HattiFattner · 01/03/2011 12:00

and i beleve HattiFattner is working for Capita on the census so is perhaps not quite so impartial

Yep, they may, or may not, pay me the princely sum of £8 an hour (before tax) to work evenings banging on peoples doors and asking them why they havent filled in their forms, only to be met with a load of old codwallop about lockheed.

Despite completing all the online recuritment and attending a training course, I still dont actually have a contract or job offer, so technically, I am not working for anyone. I am unemployed. So this little job for 1 whole month will mean I can take my family on a "luxurious" camping holiday. Happy days!

Another little nugget of information for you.

You can fill in any name you like on the form if you wish - Tona Turner, Mickey Mouse, Luke Skywalker - No-one is going to cross check your identity with any other database, as there are 65m+ people being counted. You can lie about anything you wish - its your choice, and you will be breaking the law, but the chances of them finding this out, when they have 65m people to count is virtually nil.

You can say you have 1 person or 6 people in your household (you can 30 if you do it online) and you can make up all their details if you so desire. You'll be breaking the law, but you probably wont be caught,let alone prosecuted.

If you dont fill in the form, you are a sitting duck for the CPS - an easy peasy prosecution, and £1000 fine ch-ching. That will do nicely to add to the chancellors moneypot.

However, there is an old IT adage: Crap in equals Crap out. If you put in duff data, dont expect the data coming out of the census, the data being used to determine future services, to be any good.

If you decide to put in crap, you lose the right to ever whinge about a lack of services in your area ever again. DO not complain if your child doesnt get a school place. DO not whinge if your elderly dependant mother cant get a bed in hospital or care home. Do not whinge if you cannot get a doctors appointment in less than 4 weeks. No complaints if planners build 150 houses on your door step with parking for 75, based on the statistical data that people dont have cars. Dont complain if they decide to scrap the bus service serving your area.

Boycott all you like, but please dont feign huge indignation at cuts in services if you do not fill in the form correctly as you will only have yourself to blame.

I speak as one of the unemployed, in an area of significant deprivation and child poverty. I'll be ensuring my form is completely accurate in the hope that local government might give us a childrens playpark. They might let us keep our sure start service. They might reverse their decision on scrapping the school bus. they might pull their finger out and build a new school (or at least a couple of classrooms) for the 60 senior school kids that will be without a place in 3 years time.

sevendwarves · 01/03/2011 12:24

Well said Hatti

OP do you really think a huge multiple-billion dollor corporation got to where it is now by saying that £150million is "peanuts"?

winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 12:26

yeah right hattie so now the cuts in services and susequent hardship for everyone is now to be laid at the doors of those who boycott or erroneously fill in the census.....i've heard it all now.

you're talking about services that this government is savagely cutting. and if you're peed off at having to knock on people's doors about census i'm sorry you can't find more gainful employment but that's no reason to be so aggressive to someone who makes an informed choice instead of stumbling blindy into something questionable. the info required for a census is already available. have you listened to the radio4 i'view?

and last time i checked poorbuthappy i hadn't bought a cluster bomb or hired a waterboarder cum torturer for the day.

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winstonsmith · 01/03/2011 12:28

jesus why are you all so defensive about a choice I'VE made? just trot along and fill in the census like the somnambulists you are.

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StrawberriesAndScream · 01/03/2011 12:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GrimmaTheNome · 01/03/2011 12:50

Don't boycott, and if you're really not religious nowadays, please tick the No Religion box!

I'm not going to fill in my form like a somnambulist, I'm doing it as someone who knows that future policies are made in the light of this data.

If you don't fill it in, don't complain if your sector of society is overlooked.