webchat with "loons, fruitcakes and racists"

[glasnost]

Is it ok for MN to be hosting a webchat with someone branded the above by our PM?

Because the ones I have "talked" to on political wedsites have been as I described.

The ridiculous "hatred" of the EU (a very good thing if your not associating with fruitloops) for one thing and the complaints about immigration as if it isnt a two way thing.

Every political party needs money to function, are you that naive?

Anyway, political proximity to the BNP? Let's actually analyse that:

BNP believe in ethnic nationalism, so they are inherently racist.

UKIP believe in civic nationalism, ie that anyone regardless of race or religion can be British, much like PC/SNP.

BNP are a socialist party which wants protectionism and isolation.

UKIP is economically liberal which wants to trade with the world.

Need I go on?

So Newwave, why is it ridiculous to hate the EU? As someone who studies IR, you better have some damn good reasons or they're going to get torn to shreds.

As someone who studies IR, you better have some damn good reasons or they're going to get torn to shreds.

OOHH get you.

Because the EU has been a force for good since WW2.

Because it has helped raise the living standards of the poorer countries in Europe.

Because being part of the EU increases our bargaining power in the world.

Because we now settle our European differences without bombs or bullets.

The UK needs to be closer to Europe not whinging from the sidelines although I will admit the Euro needs reformulating.

I think it is a very good idea to host a webchat.

There are quite a lot of things that our PM has said that i think is utter bollox.

I want to see what this twat has to say for himself.

Well that's all a load of rubbish. EU has been a force for a good since WW2? Get your facts straight.

Liberal democracies and trade have been keeping the peace, as well as the NATO/Warsaw Pact balance of power during the Cold War. If we went by your bizarre logic, why hasn't Norway invaded Sweden?

Countries do not need the EU to trade with each other, in fact the EU is hindrance in this issue. The EU raises the living standards of the poorer countries in Europe? Well considering Moldova isn't a member, that's also in correct. EU's attempts at Realpolitik could see Moldova massively suffer in fact. Just look at Greece, one of the poorer EU members - decimated by being part of the Euro. The EU applies a one-size-fits-all approach, which doesn't work, thus the Euro and EU are doomed to fail.

Being part of the EU does not increase our bargaining power in the world, in stifles it because we have no voice of our own to look out for our interests in terms of trade. Just check out the Doha Round of the WTO for example, EU is making demands, we're not allowed our say.

EU rules are decimating our financial sector - look at the capital flight from the City. They will head to Singapore, Switzerland, Macau, and other more favourable locations. Why? Because the EU only has room for one financial capital - Frankfurt.
You are making the classic mistake of thinking Europe = EU... it isn't! How do you propose getting closer to Europe? Sticking a motor on the British Isles.

To cap it all off, the EU only came about in 1993.

Well that's all a load of rubbish. EU has been a force for a good since WW2? Get your facts straight.

Liberal democracies and trade have been keeping the peace, as well as the NATO/Warsaw Pact balance of power during the Cold War. If we went by your bizarre logic, why hasn't Norway invaded Sweden?

Countries do not need the EU to trade with each other, in fact the EU is hindrance in this issue. The EU raises the living standards of the poorer countries in Europe? Well considering Moldova isn't a member, that's also in correct. EU's attempts at Realpolitik could see Moldova massively suffer in fact. Just look at Greece, one of the poorer EU members - decimated by being part of the Euro. The EU applies a one-size-fits-all approach, which doesn't work, thus the Euro and EU are doomed to fail.

Being part of the EU does not increase our bargaining power in the world, in stifles it because we have no voice of our own to look out for our interests in terms of trade. Just check out the Doha Round of the WTO for example, EU is making demands, we're not allowed our say.

EU rules are decimating our financial sector - look at the capital flight from the City. They will head to Singapore, Switzerland, Macau, and other more favourable locations. Why? Because the EU only has room for one financial capital - Frankfurt.
You are making the classic mistake of thinking Europe = EU... it isn't! How do you propose getting closer to Europe? Sticking a motor on the British Isles.

Mostly bullshit although I accept the EU/EC point.

I will be back after the footy :)

The EU has brought untold stability and prosperity to Europe. European integration has been a great driver of economic growth across the continent and I think that with the current speed of globalisation, it would madness in the extreme to try and withdraw from the EU.

The EU has not brought prosperity to Europe, it has brought stagnation. Why do you think Norway, one of richest countries in the world per capita, has stayed out? Croatia is also having second thoughts about EU entry. You seem be basing your argument on Daily Mirror style scaremongering about what would happen if we left the EU.

The EU has lead to increases in trade, foreign direct investment and productivity in the member states. Norway has done as well as it has due to the abundance of natural resources that it has, few countries are blessed with the amount of oil and gas deposits that they have.

Kitto my main beef with your party is you cosy up to the ugliest, most xenophobic political formations in the European parliament whilst simultaneously striving to project a more moderate image in the UK.

An openly racist, quite frankly deranged Northern League politician like Mario Borghezio is in your group (Europe of Freedom and Democracy) who is an apologist for fascism. Another lovely exponent of the Nothern League (albeit not an MEP) is Gentilini who advocated the extermination of gypsy children. Jan Slota (head of the Slovak National Party) another of your allies in Europe said the best way to deal with Roma gypsies was "a long whip in a small yard".

Will be interesting tomorrow to see what your boss leader hasto say about this if anything at all.

Dear God huddspur, you do swallow up the propaganda - no basis in fact whatsoever. German economy is being dragged down by other Eurozone ones, PIGS' economies are suffering because they cannot cope with a fiscal union with Germany.

Read this:
www.brugesgroup.com/eu/the-mythology-of-the-eu-countered.htm

Glasnost - That is a very good question to ask, and I look forward to hearing the response. What I will say though, is we aren't like those parties, but we're between a rock and a hard place. Hopefully, parties with similar ideologies to ours will break through at the next EU elections, and we can form a new group, but I'm speaking as a supporter, not as a representative of the party.

European integration has broken down the physical, technical and fiscal barriers to trade in the EU. This greatily increased foreign direct investment into Europe as there are greater returns on offer to investors. Productivity has also increased as European firms are now more able to take advantage of economies of scale as they have a far larger market to take advantage of which has lead to greater efficiency and productivity.

Norway, one of the richest countries in the world per capita. It has a population of around 5m (ie about the same size as Scotland), so comparing Norway to the UK is like comparing apples and oranges, IMO. Their economies are entirely different, as is their social structure, tax base etc etc. And for every Norway, you can also find an Iceland...

This thread is evidence enough of how metropolitan and liberal MN is and hardly indicative of the wider UK population.

A majority of people in the UK hold views that would be considered 'eurosceptic' and yet, when any of them pop up on here to express them, they are howled down all too predictably by those that don't like debate or discussion and prefer to attack the opinion-holder, rather than the opinion.

There are plenty of opinions being discussed on both threads, IMO, not just 'howled down'. The make-up of MN is what it is. Just because you disagree with the opinions expressed by MNers doesn't mean they are 'howling you down'.

It's also worth pointing out why Norway is so rich - one, simple, unambiguous reason - until the late 1960s it was one of the poorest countries in non-Eastern bloc Europe, on a par with Portugal.

Oh please MNHQ we could have such fun with him. :)

Oh yes, Bozza. Now that would be a very entertaining webchat.

Kitto
Germany is one of the few countries currently weathering the economic downturn well. Not quite sure what you mean by them being pulled down by the Euro.

yes its ok.farage democratically elected MEP.UK citizens voted for him legitimately

find the ban 'im crew more sinister and provocative
why would one silence expression and opinion?

and as much as i dont concur i support his right to speak and be quizzed on mn

dont presume because i find ukip odious i want them banned or prevented from talk on mn

Can I ask those of you in favour of staying in the EU if you would like to see reform of the EU.

I do have problems with parts of the EU. The CAP and the fishing laws are in desperate need of reform.

What I don't understand is why UKIP does not lobby for this. They would find much more acceptance and understanding if they would.

Sorry, glasnost, I didn't know this thread was up - otherwise I'd have posted much of what I've said on the webchat on here...

MmeLindt, I am pro-EU but certainly think there are many aspects of it which could do with reform - CAP being one of them.

There's a really good piece on EU fishing laws here, btw:
www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/01/britain_and_eu

FWIW, what I object to about UKIP - apart from their racism, sexism, xenophobia, their financial scandals, schoolboy antics etc - is their misrepresentation of what constitutes the EU/ECHR and all the other 'straight banana' stories out there... it does detract from those areas that do need reform, as you say, Mme LIndt.

Still, not long now...

Yes I agree Madam - I have a number of concerns about the EU but I don't think UKIP is best placed to offer reforms and changes.