The Welfare Reform Bill

[LadyBlaBlah]

I am watching IDS and Davey on New24.

The top line seems to be:

1. Simplify system and make work pay - universal credit system which will be simpler and mean that it will always pay to work.

1. Sanctions - tougher and limits on what people will receive, especially HB. Prosecutions on all cheats. If you turn down jobs you will be refused benefits.

1. Take out the top down bureaucracy and use innovative solutions. Training, help and support for those who are fit to work - from specialist companies. Paid by good results - not like the previous system. Paying companies the money they save from paying out benefits.

Also get to grip with those who don't stick out jobs once they are in it - review to end the sick note culture.

Disabled - DLA will get it whether they work or not. Those who can't work will be supported.

Wants a culture of responsibility and make the system simpler.

Having worked in this sector doing some quite innovative work, (even if I say so myself), some of it makes sense e.g. the simplification of all the benefits, but as the woman from Shelter is saying, the contractual system in providing services is too complicated and prohibitive to organisations that really can make a difference.

IDS is making a promise though, so let's see.

georgeorwell. it as I've said always best to avoid abusive language as you used to adamsic IMO he has every right to question why so many europeans are employed in local jobs, and I think in part he answers his own question.

1. This country is part of the EU even if we wanted to we can't just employ British workers. WE always stick to EU rules and employ people from EU countries unlike Spain and other countries. Just visit the coastline of Spain/Italy and most people employed are SPANISH/ITALIAN. NOT OTHER EUROPEANS. Also most europeans speak English this gives them a distinct advantage. Most are young and can afford to live six to a house or in cramped conditions. British people cannot survive like this, particularl in places like London. WE are the indigenious people so we have families freinds and are not so transient as say a young Polish man.

2)While employers in adamsic's area are paying low wages, they will not be employing British people. While it's easier to employ foreingers employers will do this.

3. Employers need to pay proper wages, to encourage British people young or old to apply for jobs. British people need to change their attitude to work. Jamie Oliver says we have produced a nation of wimps and I agree with that. Get of your arses British people, show you are more than capable of doing a job now occupied by an Eastern European!

4. The previous Government was very happy to have Mass Immigration either from the EU or outside it. It kept it's business freinds companies alive, by employing foreigners on low wages. It also gave the V sign to the Tories. All at the expense of the British worker.

5. Not employing British people white/black or any other colour drives people into the arms of the far right parties. The young become disenfranchised from the political process by years of unemployment, and see an escape route through the BNP or other parties.
   The EU has another 8 succession countries that wish to join the EU, it amounts to anothe 172 million people in the EU, if a fraction came here you would look at millions seeking work in Britain. If adamsic is worried about jobs now, he/she has seen nothing yet

Also the constant denigration or Britian's culture and it's inability to break the yolk of political correctness, angers many people.This also has an impact on the parties these people will join.

The government must find ways of employing British people otherwise they are treading a very dangerous path, which we will all pay for.

adamsic you are quite right to bring this area up.

agree entirely, complimentary. Everybody has a right to have a say on MN. We all have different views and beliefs, and we should all accept different views without resorting to abusive bullying.

Part of the Welfare reform bill is a tax on child maintenance payments!

Some of you will already know that the Gvnt is currently consulting on its proposal to charge parents for the use of the Child Support Agency (CSA). This means that it will deduct up to 12% from the monthly child maintenance payment that you currently receive if you continue to use their service. This means an average of £24.00 will be deducted directly from you child(ren)s maintenance each and every month.

You can read the Gvnts consultation paper and respond directly at
www.dwp.gov.uk/consultations/2011/strengthening-families.shtml

You can say NO to a tax on child maintenance by signing an online petition at

www.ipetitions.com/petition/taxingkids/
Please sign the petition and encourage others to sign too!

I dont know what the chances are of some alterations as the bill goes through Parliament.

(can Dave see the wood for the trees? )

I think channel 4 tv did a fierce interview with a minister. (Thursday)

Some radio stations seemed afraid of IDS in interview. (Govt does fix the license fee, I suppose)

The last two posts give some useful onformation.

On phone-ins it was the disabled and young mums who seems very worried. (Fogarty on BBC 5-Live)

Newsnight had a pedantic thing about
AV voting. (Not like them)

'"people are very rarely motivated by money"

I think that's a naive view because money is a very important part of the equation

There's adifference betweem being motivated by security and by money; benefiys doesn't count security IMO as we are only ever one general election away from it potentially being removed.

I am motivated by security. Hugely.

But for ds3 who will never work and potentially any of the others who might possibly become a carer depending on their own lives etc, I also recognise that independence is not only non-choice absed for many, it is a luxury some cannot obtain without immense sacrifice- I could work and be independent now rather than in a year or two but I could not take teh sacrifice (and absolute cruelty) of placing ds1 and ds3 in a residential setting.

Interesting about tax on CSA- givem that the top % of earners don;t access it anyway: friend's H refusing to pay maintenance as he cannot afford it (!!!) and his income is above the £2k per week limit for CSA so she has to get a court order. Will people paying maintenance via courts be taxed if CSA is I wonder? It would include most, if not all, MP types.

abusive bullying is likening immigrants to insects by implication (swarms). saying that i spout "claptrap" and "garbage" etc as claig has said on another thread. claig and comp (sounds like a "last of the summer wine" character) seem to think they've a god given right to shoot down in flames anyone who deviates from their narrow, uptight tory worldview. prob in a bid to make MN v. boring.

tough shit i'll express my opinions just as you do and adam IS an idiot to use inflammatory language like that.

so yah boo sucks to you too

No, I said "communist claptrap and Gramsci garbage". It was a joke. I didn't call you an idiot, as you so nastily called adamschic.

'yah boo sucks! at least there's more space in the playground now.'

MN isn't a playground, it's not about tough shit and yah boo sucks. It's about respect and tolerance. adamschic, a Labour supporter, has had to hide the thread. That's a shame, nobody should be intimidated from posting by bullies.

intimidated??????? if you can't take the heat. any immigrant mums surfing the site could have been intimidated by adam's language. what do you think about that??

as i said any opinion deviating from the uptight xenophobic tory/new labour worldview seems to be anathema here. and bullying is what you're doing claig. you've prob scared off anyone daring to disagree with you.

oh and i called adam an idiot as a joke too just as you called what i wrote yesterday claptrap and garbage. so that's alright then isn't it? or do you get to decide what's funny and what isn't?

I don't make personal attacks on people. I don't call anyone an idiot, because I don't think anyone is an idiot.

adamschic didn't attack any immigrant mum. Hardly anyone does support an upright Tory view on here, they can't help it if they are wrong. It's not anathema to be anti-Tory, but it is anathema to be rude and abusive to individual posters. Carry on posting your anti-Tory views, but please try not to insult posters who disagree with you.

adamschic didn't find you calling her an idiot a joke, so it's not alright. She has now hidden the thread. Fortunately, complimentary had the courage to stand up for adamschic. We're not in a militant meeting, we're part of a civil discussion forum.

adam prob hid thread as was a bit shame faced at the xenophobic language she used yesterday.

civil discussion is great. that's exactly why i objected to her comments re. eastern europeans as my grandfather was romanian and dared made his home in the great uk in order to flee persecution.

but obv there's one rule for the goose and one for the gander on here. i'm not one to hold a grudge tho so will be back.

good, look forward to more of your posts.

There's not one rule for the goose and one for the gander, Labour have been defeated.

Georgeorwell. Why on earth did you pick that name. By the sound of your posts you're all in favour of the thought police.

Xenaphobia is a nonsense word. Phobia is an irrational fear of something. I'm sure adam does not run down the street screaming when she sees a foreigner! He/she is merely making observations and if they use the word swarm so what! Who are you to police people's language?

So what is your grandfather was Romanian, do you want a medal? Talking of medals my Irish father had plenty, as he was a teenager in WW2, in the RAF. Half my husband's family are muslims.

Should I not remark on immigration? Islam? Sinn Fein? Or any area that I fear may be read by the above on MN?

You can in my opinion deviate from any norm you like. But in the same token don't try to drive people off here, because you don't like there terminology.

sorry did you say Dla has now been abolished for adults from what date?.Am thinking of friends hubby as he is full time wheelchair user and is slowly losing strength in his arms to as has for of MD and i know without the dla they will struggle

As so will we when they start looking at dc claims

Whilst the CSA tax is unlikely to affect anyone given their success rate, I'm rather in favor because they have excluded maintenance from benefits deductions - does that sentence make sense ?? so more women will be inclined to make their ex partners pay on the basis that there is now something in it for them as opposed to every penny being deducted from their benefits and if the AP was unreliable it was better not to even rock the boat and ask him for payments.

well csa they given up on ds1 and ds2 dad and the younger two second we split he went on to incapcity benefit and there he has stayed as apparentley he cant work ( cough bullsh**) but hey well enough for him and his new gf tobe having a child

I don't get benefits, it will be a drastic reduction in my children's lifestyle to have that csa taxed. There was ea with their father, they need to live.

But who is the loser in that case, him because you cannot have a life on IB really, poor child being brought into those circumstances.
My ex earnt £247,000 last year I've got the CSA chasing him, what do you think the chances are he transfers all his investments into his wife's name next year and earns £40k ? Where there's a will to be a tosser there's a way.

you won't let it lie will you? are you and claig one and the same? or a 2 headed hydra? even tho i'm pretty damn sure claig's a bloke. i totally stand by my calling of adam an idiot as that kinda language is unacceptable. it's insidious and well dodgy.

ciao 4 now!!

Mummie Hunnie - go for a private arrangement then and cut the CSA out, it's probably better anyway if you can trust him and if you can't then section 1a of the children's act, apply for a court order.

He won't pay, he went for 9 months not paying, he will fake anything, emotional abuser! I could do the court order, he will love the attention and will do anything to get out of paying, it will thrill him to do the kids and me over!

mamatory

he can and does he somehow manged to buy car thats only a few years old .yet complains the £5 a ffortnight i get for the younger 2 dc is to much and he cant afford it and for the record he is not really sick or disabled either but he swings it without anyone asking tough questions

That might be through the mobility scheme though, the newish car, they aren't allowed to sell old ones.
He'll get what's coming .... I am a great believer in karma

no mamtory he is not getting dla at any level at all .And i have nop with people having moblity cars infact just ordred ours .He claims to have a iffy back that came on second we split up