The Welfare Reform Bill

[LadyBlaBlah]

I am watching IDS and Davey on New24.

The top line seems to be:

1. Simplify system and make work pay - universal credit system which will be simpler and mean that it will always pay to work.

1. Sanctions - tougher and limits on what people will receive, especially HB. Prosecutions on all cheats. If you turn down jobs you will be refused benefits.

1. Take out the top down bureaucracy and use innovative solutions. Training, help and support for those who are fit to work - from specialist companies. Paid by good results - not like the previous system. Paying companies the money they save from paying out benefits.

Also get to grip with those who don't stick out jobs once they are in it - review to end the sick note culture.

Disabled - DLA will get it whether they work or not. Those who can't work will be supported.

Wants a culture of responsibility and make the system simpler.

Having worked in this sector doing some quite innovative work, (even if I say so myself), some of it makes sense e.g. the simplification of all the benefits, but as the woman from Shelter is saying, the contractual system in providing services is too complicated and prohibitive to organisations that really can make a difference.

IDS is making a promise though, so let's see.

"Whilst the CSA tax is unlikely to affect anyone given their success rate, I'm rather in favor because they have excluded maintenance from benefits deductions - does that sentence make sense ?? "

mamatomany, it will effect my children!

also, as for excluding maintenance from benefits, well are you sure or are you just talking about tax credits? CTC is being cut as will child benefit, this will undoubtedly effect single parents considerably with children.

also, what about the rules around savings/shares and tax credits? what about the rules and tax crredits and being a home owner-assets?! if you want to talk about fairness that is?

i think that part of the idea about maintenance and benefits is that is is the children's money. it is often irregular or not recieved at all and so it would be more costly to assess and keep changing rates. there aren't many LP's raking in maintenance through the csa as you say.
as for women making their ex's pay...it really is not that simple.

On the OP I have seen many people point out that point 2 is not a new thing. I would like to point out that point 3 is not a new thing either, employability providers have been paid on results rather than for the service for a few years now, that change has already come in.

On the jobs, I have been looking, many jobs I see have 200+ applicants. The free papers on the tube have about 1/2 a page of jobs every day where they used to have 5 or 6. My old private sector employers have just laid a load of people off - they are taking advantage of the economic situation and uncertainty to reduce staff and squeeze more out of the one who remain - they are not the only ones doing this. Recruitments agents that I have spoken to describe the situation for jobseekers at the moment as extremely tough. Come the beginning of April thousands and thousands of redundant people (tens of thousands? more? does anyone know?) will hit the market. The idea that there is a buoyant market out there for jobseekers, with stacks of jobs and more coming all the time, is incorrect from what I can see.

oops, sorry mamatomany, just re read the last few pages of this thread and i think i read your post incorrectly . just so cross about the CSA stuff i can't even read properly.

The maintenance will be disregarded for Income Support as well as tax credits and yes I know somebody who is mortgage free and claims tax credits whilst reinvesting her money into her property development business which i have mixed feelings about.
I get the feeling the CSA are charging to encourage people to sort things out amongst themselves which will be fine if the courts will order attachments of earnings and threaten none payers with prison or removing driving licenses.

but there isn't going to be legal aid for this sort of dispute anymore is there?

and if you were not married can you still do this?

There is legal aid at the moment if you get your skates on and yes the courts will act in the child's interests even if you aren't married. It's the family law act apparently but I'd be getting to a solicitor asap if you think it might affect you.

interesting. i was never aware of that or made aware by any of my solicitors. at the moment i am not entitled to legal aid but canot afford to pay a solicitor either. thank goodness for the CSA as it is! which is my point i guess!

I read the link there are two issues I was interested in

1. DLA changing to PIP

It looks like dla changing to pip, dla has 5 components, pip two, and the way they assess you is different, has anyone looked at this in detail to work out what it means, am too think sorry!

2. CSA and charges

I am getting csa, and have suffered emotiionla abuse, not got evidence, will the kids loose out, as he will take the mick, he does not care if they are without money, he left them without money for about 9 months and could not give two hoots, used the money to spend on his marriage to the woman he left for!

Is the change/charge for new claimants only or for all?

all of us-they will take a percentage of the maintenance paid for our children from their dad/mum.

'Find a job or lose benefits, mothers to be told'. Article reporting that SAHMs who claim the new Universal Credit will be treated the same as lone parents.

Here: www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/feb/17/welfare-reform-mothers-lose-benefits

Lego when does it start? How much?

this is from the consultation doc:

"The applicant, normally the parent with care, will have an economic cost through the application charge, likely to be around £100 or £50 for an applicant on welfare benefits for the full statutory system and lower for the calculation only service. The full cost of an application is likely to be around £200". this charge is for an apllication and then a percentage of each months maintenance thereafter.

its consultation period now.

it then goes on say this:

The policy proposal is to close all existing Child Support Agency cases in tranches over a minimum of a two year period, offer choice to these parents so those who can collaborate will be helped to do so and allow those who cannot collaborate to apply to the new statutory service.
Since the application to the new service will incorporate a fee this will offer encouragement to parents to consider a family-based arrangement where possible.

so it appears to effect current recipients using the CSA and future ones. so in my case, they will close it down and then i will have to make a new claim and pay £200 for something I was already getting

Nice.

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/ia-strengthening-families.pdf

Georgeorwell, if you are still reading, have had chance to catch up and notice that you have justified your personal attack on me by mainly objecting to my use of the word 'swarming'. It's a figure of speech, haven't you heard the expression before? e.g "The clubs are swarming with people on a Saturday night". Considering that around 60% of people employed in my local area are from overseas it wasn't meant in an insidious manner.

The reason I hid the thread was to protect my teen DD reading the vitriol you aimed my way. She lurks when I leave it open so I wouldn't post anything that I am ashamed of. I know she knows better of me since she has met some of my friends from overseas including the slovenian boyfriend I went out with a few times last year and hope she doesn't agree with you on your other points, still it wasn't pleasant reading. Also, although I tell her not to look at mumsnet and do something more constructive with her spare time, I do strictly forbid her to post. I fear she would defy me just for you and post something back that would get me banned off the board for life .

Thanks to the other posters for pulling George up on it in my absence.

Bit of an own goal treating SAHM's same as lone aprents: I know absolutely laods fo carers who don;t actually claim any CA or DLA as they can cope on tehir partner's wage plus Tax credits; presumably they will now ahve to claim the full whack to not be made to work?

Clever!

ok adamschic i don't hold grudges so chill!

next time you'll know to go easy on the dodgy rascist language though yes?

good night to all.

ok adamschic i don't hold grudges so chill!

next time you'll know to go easy on the dodgy rascist language though yes?

good night to all.

oops there's an echo in here

george, ffs lighten up, I dont agree with Comps or claigs politics but they seem to be decent people and will have a debate/row/verbal punch up without rancour.

You and Long Fingernails will be good to "watch". I find her political opinions to be spiteful, nasty and abhorrent. I suspect she had an operation to remove any Human empathy.

Georgeorwell=Thought Police!
Pity you're nothing like the real George Orwell!

GeorgeO.'Dodgy racist language' Who are you to tell people what terminology they can use?
You need to chill out and have a every half hour!

having found out you're a UKIP supporter i'm not even gonna take seriously your objections. and who the hell are you to tell me what i can find rascist or not??? oh but MN's obv yours isn' it?

George. Chill pill required for you.............

having found out you're a UKIP supporter i'm not even gonna take seriously your objections.

George does have a point :)

Newwave. Me? Skin as thick as a Rhino, but the mind is as sharp as steel! Sorry I lied I'm boo-hooing as I go to bed!

The main effect of this bill would seem to be in the area of ?conditionality?. Already lone parents have to seek work when their child is aged 5 ? Universal Credit makes the partners of those in full time work seek work in the same way. And people in work can be forced to apply for jobs with increased hours or for better paid work.
Currently only people on JSA face conditionality ? requirements to take a set number of steps each week to apply for work, to keep records of all jobs applied for etc. But JSA is being abolished becoming part of Universal Credit. So the government had to decide who would face conditionality.
In the white paper last Autumn it was said that conditionality would apply initially to all claimants with an income at the JSA level ? but there was a comment that the income level could be increased in the future (ie people in work would then face conditionality to increase their hours or get a more highly paid job).
The bill now makes it clear that both members of a couple with children will face conditionality ? removing the right for one parent to stay at home with children:
?This represents an increased level of conditionality for certain couple groups. The conditions for receiving Universal Credit will require a joint claim from both members of a couple in all cases, i.e. both members of the couple play an equal part in the claim and so are required to undertake the same level of conditionality as for single people without children. For those with children, one member of the couple will be subject to the same conditionality as a single person, whilst the other member will be nominated as the lead carer and therefore be subject to same conditionality as if they were a lone parent (i.e. dependent on the age of their youngest child).?

Additionally it is made clear that those in work must look for ?better? jobs:
^In this Part a ?work search requirement? is a requirement that a claimant
take?
(a) all reasonable action, and
(b) any particular action specified by the Secretary of State,
for the purpose of obtaining paid work (or more paid work or better-paid
work)^

I cannot see anywhere in the new documents to say that conditionality will only apply to those with incomes at JSA level- even if only at first. There is no mention certainly in the chapter on conditionality from which the above excerpts came.
So people in full time work could be faced with the demand to move jobs to one with a better hourly rate. This affects millions of people ? as it includes those on tax credits who probably don?t even think of themselves as benefit claimants as well as those with incomes of £25000+ qualifying for Universal Credit due to high rents. Though how could the government monitor the work efforts of everyone?