How about thinking of the elderly for a change ?

[ivanhoe]

The middle classes have managed to put their case on the media map because of Child Benefit reductions.

Wheras the pensioners cause has never found a media voice.

So middle England are moaning about losing their Child benefit, and the media are picking up on it and discussing it as a topical issue, because the middle classes are making a fuss.

But hang on a minute ?, the poorest people in this country are not the middle classes, they are the working classes who in proportion to income are paying more taxes than the middle class, and the pensioners on a £5,000 a year State pension receiving a State pension which they have already paid for while working prior to their old age retirement are being ignored, even though the oldest pensioners fought for this country during the War years.

Our elderly people are the generation that government?s have run rough shod over for the past 30 years, this is the generation we should all be speaking up for, and this is the generation who have paid into the system all their working lives, but have to endure a basic State pension of £97 a week, and means tested handouts.

Many woman get less State pension due to lack of contributions while raising families.

Now you're arguing with points that support yours.

'The Coalition Needs You',
Reread what you wrote and see that you were not arguing against any support for children.
The problem is that many people do object to paying for children - regarding having children as similar to any other consumer choice.

SharronM1 - Thanks :)

Yes, and that's why the fact that they are an expense that everyone with children has isn't a reason to pay it to everyone with children. It's not about the expense per se - it's about what behaviors we want to encourage and who we want to support.

FioFio - We are the seventh biggest manufacturor in the world.

I hate this narrative of fairness. It's wishy washy bullshit that means whatever the person using it wants it to mean.

It's not about being fair. Fair can bite my shiny metal butt. Effective is what I'm interested in.

There are two functions for the tax/benefits system. Encouraging people to behave in ways that benefit them and society as a whole, and to provide support to those who are not able to support themselves.

I have no idea.

Was true a few years ago by UN figures - can't find anything more recent.

investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-countries-in-2007/

The problem with manufacturing isn't that we make less stuff. It's that it takes far fewer people to make stuff than it used to. So it's never going to be the same size employment sector that it was and this would have happened almost regardless of industrial policy.

Some pensioners are cruelly treated by the system but most people age 55 plus own their homes outright and I am sorry but I do find it hard to be sympathetic when they are rattling around in 4 bedroomed houses, heating one room letting the property deteriorate whilst families live in hamster cages and pay over a £1,000 a month for the privilege.

I've actually printed that out for the wall Riven you know I love you really and the other one which ever name she is now that i keep annoying.

One thing that isn't mentioned a lot regarding elderly people is their reliance on their savings. A lot of them have suffered a drop in income g due to the low interest rates we've had in the last couple of years.

State pensions have been left untouched for now so there just isn't any cause for the media to be highlighting older people.

'Housing wealth doesnt pay bills, and if you think the freebies help pay the bills you could not be more wrong.'

It doesn't? Give me yours then. That cold weather payment could go a long way, so could a free bus pass towards transport costs and other concessionary travel.

Boohoo.

I'll never be able to retire. We won't get just a little, but FA.

It was meant to be about 5 years long, retirement, before you reached retirement age.

Instead, people like me, nearly 40, will be slogging away age 70, next to people a mere twenty years older who'd been 'retired' for 30-odd years.

Sorry, before you reached life expectancy.

In other words, you weren't supposed to stop working and travel the world on the back of taxpayers for 30+ years. You were supposed to work till you probably couldn't do it anymore and then cark it.

It's not sustainable otherwise.

Because I sure as hell will put up a fight against paying for it.

Step away from the thread...

I have seen the OP before. He/she is just about the most selfish, one-issue person I've encountered on MN.

Pensioners who fought in the War would be at least 86 now. So you can't play the War card.

I saw a statistic which said only a tiny percentage of pensioners are actually living in so-called poverty.

The ones who are in their 60s and 70s now generally are home-owners (who paid about 50p for them back in the day), have decent pensions and are currently enjoying free bus/train travel, winter fuel payments and many other benefits which you can bet your bottom dollar will be axed by the time we turn up at the retirement gate (at about 70 years old).

/////I'll never be able to retire. We won't get just a little, but FA./////

boo bloody hoo.

Right back atcha, ivanhoe.

'I have seen the OP before. He/she is just about the most selfish, one-issue person I've encountered on MN.'

Exactly.

Thankfully, a voice of one on here, too.

'and doesn't give a shit about future pensioners'

Or anyone, really.