Anti-Catholic feelings

[StrictlyKatty]

I'm pretty exhuasted right now with all the Anti-Catholic feeling on MN

A week never seems to go by without a thread about how Catholics should all feels ashamed about abuse (which we all do!) and how the Catholic Church should disband, that all Priests are kiddy fiddlers etc

Then, which really drives me mad, people with their threads about how to fake religion to get into Catholic school

There is now a thread about how frigging funny it is to see the Pope on a condom. I do wonder how funny people would find Mohammad on a sauasge... not very is my bet! Why can't respect for peoples religion be extended to Catholics?

I just wish people would understand that while noone feels that the RC church doesn't have a lot to apologise for it is not 100% rotten, the Pope isn't a Nazi and not every Priest signed up to spend time alone with little boys

DH thinks I should rise above it, but it hurts me! It has just made me cry seeing all the horrible things people have said about the church today.
Am I alone

But look at the reasons why people are so against the catholic church. It has nothing to do with faith schools - it has to do with hundreds of thousands of children being abused over deckades (and we only know about the past few deckades, it might have been going on for centuries for all we know and probably was), and the fact that instead of helping the vulnerable people the church claims to look out for, the abusers were simply moved on to continue their abuse elsewhere, and everyone from priests to bishops to cardinals and probably the pope at the time knew all about it and did nothing.

And is it any wonder that people think that all priests are child abusers when there's just no way of knowing because if they are then it would probably be covered up anyway.

The pope's apology (if he even makes one) means nothing. It's just words because he feels he has to say them under pressure from the world. If he had any sincerity about him he would have stood up for what was right at the time, but he didn't.

So to ask for respect for the pope and the church is pretty bloody unreasonable.

And by being members of the catholic church, and defending them, and speaking out for the pope and his fake apology you are a part of it.

So yes, catholics should be ashamed. And if they don't agree with what their church stands for they should be walking away and finding their faith elsewhere.

There is no defending the pope, or the priests, or the bishops, or the entire organization.

It isn;t as easy as walking away and finding your faith elsewhere. Faith is, literally, irrational, and it can;t be switched on and off, or changed to another church, as simply as all that.

But your point about respect for the Pope is actually a pretty valid one. I'm not sure why any non-Catholic would feel any respect for him, and as a Catholic it is pretty bloody difficult TBH.

Well said wannabe.

The Pope knew about the abuse and covered it up.

OP - why aren't you furious with him instead of being furious with people critical of him

'And by being members of the catholic church, and defending them, and speaking out for the pope and his fake apology you are a part of it.'

You cannot be serious?! My DS was born in Germany, shall I start teaching him to feel shame for his Germaness too? We are not all guilty for the crimes of a few! Those who have committed crimes should be punished on earth and will certainly be punished by God.

You can support the Catholic church without agreeing with abuse you know... Tey are not the same thing. Every Catholic I know wants the Church to atone for it's mistakes but that does not mean that that we will give up on it or that staying in it makes us guilty of something

but if there were enough disilusioned catholics out there then why could they not break away and form their own church with similar beliefs but without the added associations of sexual abuse? It happens often enough in other religions.

Because then we wouldn't be Catholic.

That's what makes it so bloody hard at the moment

StrictlyKatty. I agree with you, there seem to be a lot of threads recently that are pretty disrespectful including the most recent AIBU one which was pointless.
But religion is always going to be an emotive topic and us Catholics are going through a shaming and shocking time - I know lots of people who know I attend mass and now can't wait to tell me their opinion even though it's never been mentioned in the years that we have been acquaintances.
I'm sure a few of the posters will be back soon wanting to know how to get into a Catholic school anyway. Or maybe not.

oh by the way onagar,
by my atrocious remark do you mean the one you felt the need to re-quote

to which you replied:

Not bothered that children were and ARE being abused? Don't judge us by your own standards or lack of them.

i do have standards thank you. the thread before this was about condoms and sausages actually.

the fact is that no one I know in RL ever had an issue about Catholicism until it came to school applications then all hell breaks loose. on mn too, just take a look at the pattern of the threads.

and of course the abuse is outrageous, and the response even worse. but that isn't what this was about actually.

Because there is only one Catholic Church as founded by St Peter. For better for worse, this is our church so we must do what we can to change our church for the better. You cannot just give up on 2000 years of history without attempting to save what we have.

But StrictlyKatty - if the Pope was involved in covering up the sexual abuse of children, how can he be the right person to lead the church? How can he be God's chosen?

And how can any Catholic not be struggling with that question now? You must be, surely?

he wasn't actually involved in covering up the sexual abuse as far as i am aware, he asked for details of investigations not to be made public (yes on threat of ex-communication) but this was in reference to priests who had not yet been found guilty!

the thing is TheFallenMadonna it is actually very hard to find out the true details on all of this as the media have just gone for it.

You don't have to feel shame for your origins but we do have to acknowledge the mistakes of our forefathers. The British have been guilty of some pretty attrocious (sp?) things in the past as well, as a Brit I don't feel personally ashamed as I didn't personally commit any acts, but I feel that it should be acknowledged and I certainly wouldn't defend those responsible.

let's look at it another way:

Imagine a member of your family, or a close friend, sexually abused a child. Moreover, imagine that another friend knew about it and kept it quiet. Once it all came to light, what would you do? Would you continue the friendship even knowing what the person had done? And what of the friend that kept it quiet, would you defend them if they apologized?

There is also the issue of the Church's 'obsessive concealment' of what has gone on.

In 1998 aged 50, I waited months for my barrister to get my records from 2 homes I had been reared in. The Church did everything they could to delay surrendering the records to the lawyers. This was because the records contained detailed reports of incidents which I had related to my barrister which the nuns didn't want made public.
Initially, the Catholic Church adopted a stance of 'Never heard of her.' 'Never heard of him'. 'There was no child of that name ever in one of our homes'. They lied and lied until, eventually court orders were issued for them to surrender the records.
Is this a faith people want to follow- where vulnerable children, now adults have to fight for justice and recognition?
How can people defend the indefensible?

and let's be honest - how can you possibly know that it's not still going on?

The church was rife with paedophiles, surely they haven't all just disappeared?

I do support the Pope. I personally believe that he has done what he has done because he thought it was for the best. I do not believe the Pope would EVER want to see abuse continue. He has asked for silence after the abuse has taken place yes, because he wanted it dealt with with as little damage to the church as possible. I do believe this was the wrong choice, but done with the right intensions.

The Pope is apologising for what the Church has done wrong, he wants change. He has admitted his personal mistakes and has asked for forgivness. The Catholic church teaches forgivness, when someone asks for it and truly repents. If the Pope has done this and truly means it I am happy to support him.

So where are all the investigations, sackings, excommunications, prosecutions?

They have been far too powerful and corrupt for too long.This gradual exposing of the catholic church is worrying them There is a lot of £ involved and they are terrified that now that the flood gates are open their power will be diminished.Bring it on!No organised religion should have the standing One person praying in their garden shed to his own higher power is as valid as a big organisation and neither should get more or less respect than the other.

The "silence" asked for by the Pope and others at the time abuse was uncovered was (IMHO) most certainly NOT done for the right intentions. It was done to make sure the church maintained its hold on the catholic population and held onto its wealth.

If the Pope was involved in any way witha cover up he should go. As should any other priest, bishop etc. They have all perverted the course of justice.

The Catholic churh needs to move with the times regarding contraception, gay rights etc. It is completely out of touch with a lot of modern life

(I am a practising Catholic, though seriously thinking of jumping ship and becomeing C of E)

He was wrong wasn't he? Silence was a bloody awful idea. For everyone. Except the priests who have still got away with it. He may well have thought it was for the best, but it wasn't. It was a massive, massive mistake.

Hundreds of Priests have been suspended or sacked after abuse has come to light. The problem has been that a lot of the abuse has not come to light for decades which has meant many Priests were already dead or retired. Nearly a quarter of abuse cases were not reported for more than 30 years afterwards, this has made it difficult for action to be taken as quickly as we would have liked.

"I do support the Pope. I personally believe that he has done what he has done because he thought it was for the best. I do not believe the Pope would EVER
want to see abuse continue. He has asked for silence after the abuse has taken place yes, because he wanted it dealt with with as little damage to the
church as possible. I do believe this was the wrong choice, but done with the right intensions." Have you been so brainwashed that you can't see it?

As I said before, if you are supporting the church and the pope then you are as good as one of them.

SK - it is responses like yours that cause people to feel so much disgust at present.

You acknowledge that the Pope knew about the abuse but did nothing to stop the paedophile priests by silencing the victims to avoid damaging the church.

You really should be ashamed of yourself. You support a man who put the interests of his organisation above those of childen who had been raped by his own clergy.

Really? You call yourself a christian, but what do you think Jesus would have done. Would his prime concern have been to protect the institution or protect the children and bring the rapists to justice.

Shame on you. Shame on the Catholics who support the Pope.

In fact only 25% of abuse cases have been reported as happening within the last decade. Rightly or wrongly it is very hard to prosecute for things which happened 10 years ago. Can you imagine the conviction rates for abuse in this country of the majority of crimes were not reported for a decade?? It's horribly low as it is without the adding presure of a decade or more of lost evidence.

"If the Pope was involved in any way witha cover up he should go. As should any other priest, bishop etc. They have all perverted the course of justice.

The Catholic churh needs to move with the times regarding contraception, gay rights etc. It is completely out of touch with a lot of modern life

(I am a practising Catholic, though seriously thinking of jumping ship and becomeing C of E)" Now see this is what I mean by catholics standing up for what is right.

Anyone else who defends the pope deserves all the criticism they get imho.

Would you rather everyone accused it just excommunicated without any evidence? Gathering evidence takes time which is why the Pope has tried to do things behind closed doors so people are not judged for things they have not yet been proven guilty of a crime.