Anti-Catholic feelings

[StrictlyKatty]

I'm pretty exhuasted right now with all the Anti-Catholic feeling on MN

A week never seems to go by without a thread about how Catholics should all feels ashamed about abuse (which we all do!) and how the Catholic Church should disband, that all Priests are kiddy fiddlers etc

Then, which really drives me mad, people with their threads about how to fake religion to get into Catholic school

There is now a thread about how frigging funny it is to see the Pope on a condom. I do wonder how funny people would find Mohammad on a sauasge... not very is my bet! Why can't respect for peoples religion be extended to Catholics?

I just wish people would understand that while noone feels that the RC church doesn't have a lot to apologise for it is not 100% rotten, the Pope isn't a Nazi and not every Priest signed up to spend time alone with little boys

DH thinks I should rise above it, but it hurts me! It has just made me cry seeing all the horrible things people have said about the church today.
Am I alone

And I didn't complain about that, I complained because Wannabe said that I agreed with criminal behaviour, which I do not and have made clear all along that I don't.

It has been removed now and the poster warned which is all I wanted to happen.

custardo, why ? ?
Thought you were a Christian...
Out of the mouth comes what's in one's heart, there is a Bible quote for this...

SK - You said 'libellous', 'taking further action', and 'legal implications', is why everyone thought you were taking legal action.

Normally people just say, "X, I have reported your post of xx:xx as it is a personal attack".

Looking back over the thread, it seems like a lot of times people have misinterpreted something you've said. I dunno, maybe you need to check your posts before hitting 'post'? obviously this is something you feel strongly about, maybe you are getting a bit over-emotional and using language that implies stuff you don't mean?

I said libellous as that is what it's called, saying something in print which has no basis in fact.

I said further actions as in further than complaining to Wannabe and reporting it to MNHQ... I NEVER mentioned legal action

I added the bit about legal implications as I thought it was actually very arrogant for Wannabe to basically think she can say whatever awful things she wants on the net and expect someone else ie: MN to take the flack for her when that is not actually the case and if you say things of a personally libbelous action on the the internet you CAN be personally sued. You cannot actually go around saying that people condone the actions and even support the actions of crinimals without expecting some form of comback.

There's always been an element of anti-Catholicism in this country: in its laws and in its culture. Go to Lewes in November if you doubt me

The latest spasm - as the OP correctly identified - is not based on reason (the secularists won't like that) - see arrest the pope thread as an example.

The question the anti-catholics struggle with is why do people stick with the church if it is full of child abusers. What they can't seem to appreciate that the church is not. See the Newsweek website for a balanced view.

Meanwhile offer up the anti Catholicism - they will understand that even less and that will be amusing.

zanzibarmum: What a breath of fresh air
SK: I get what you've trying to say, and feel the same way. Just breathe, offer it up, and step away from this thread for a bit

Catholic Bishops condemn child abuse

SK: Did your parish priest distribute the statement by Catholic bishops of England & Wales at mass this weekend? I thought it was extremely well written and very sincere. Certain something to reflect upon

These statements are just words on paper - easy to do, and done because the Catholic Church has been caught out and now has to have a response ready for the decades of child abuse perpetrated on young and vulnerable placed in their care when they had no one else to turn to.
Some of you Catholics need to step back for a moment and picture terrified, sad and distressed children and think how it would be if your own children were in their place.

But then you might be late for Mass, eh? And that would never do, would it?

Marjoriew: You are right. Just words on paper, but it's a tiny step in the right direction. I don't for a moment think any of these words will bring much solace to those so brutally affected. I am embarrassed, horrified and disgusted that people in my Church have done so much wrong, inflicted so much pain and suffering. Yet this Church and my faith is part of me and my love for her will continue to remain. I cannot do much, but what little I can do (even if it is just prayer), I hope will help in the healing over time.

I really just wish people would look at the facts before they make these judgements.

Marjorie, I have a 2 year old, I'm pretty much late for Mass every week. When I'm not late DS screams/laughs/stands on his chair/throws his hymn books throughout the entire service. I am not concerned by the 'done thing' I thought this thread would have shown you that.

Luckily I have a Priest who would rather see me there with DS than not so doesn't make me feel bad for bringing him. He has also helped me deal with DH going away with the army, he has really helped with my worry about what would happen if something happened to DH as he has been agnostic for 10 years now and it scares me that he could die without returning to God as well as the fact we move a lot and I have been very very lonely at times.

The language here is instructive:

'...you catholics...'

Where have I heard that sort of language before????

My 4yr old acts like your 2 yr old, SK......and demands raisins, sweeties, biscuits every 5 minutes ;)

Hhahah Tootsie Easter Sunday Mass I bought with me

1. Banana
2. Raisins
3. Grapes
4. Big bottle of juice
5. Some rich tea biscuits

He ate the lot by the 2nd reading as I was so desperate to keep him quiet! My MIL had to still take him outside twice as he was throwing his crayons at the poor woman in front! He also screamed 'Christ!' at the top of his voice a few times as he'd heard it in a reading and clearly liked the word...

This was at my PIL's where he was Baptised and afterwards the Priest actually gave him a Milky Way and said how happy he was to see the little boy he'd Baptised again and how lovely he was I was thinking thank goodness this is a massive church and there were lots of babies so he didn't know prett much all the bad behaviour was my one child

Oh our local Church is really small as it's only a tiny village so the Priest can always see it's DS He doesn't seem to mind though, they even made a toy den at the back so they can sit there and play with the cars etc during Mass which I think it nice.

Ours is a small village parish too, but ever growing, with great community spirit. DS has been known to scream 'Jesus!' at the top of his voice (gets giggles from some people) and comments about how wonderful his singing is (despite proud yet embarrassed mummy trying to shush him up most times). We are lucky to have a priest who is an academic genius, a brilliant historian, who is able to preach in the most practical and understandable way to the population group (I actually prefer more academic homilies, but that's beside the point).

onagar: Sorry to disappoint you, but personally, I would never pray that God strikes people dumb just to hush them up, more the opposite, even at the expense of more heads rolling

Mine is a Scottish Ex Naval Officer Tootsie, he is seriously dry witted

I just wrote a long paragraph trying to explain the feel of my Church and why I feel so passionate about it but I'm wary of people taking the p**s so I deleted it. What I will say is that it makes me proud to be a Catholic, both there and my PIL's church which we go to a lot have been so welcoming.

When DS was born DH was posted in Germany and we wanted to have him Baptised, my MIL asked her Priest if he would do it even though we don't live in their parish. He replied 'DS is a young soul we wouldn't never want to lose' and basically said he would be delighted to Baptise him.

My cousin is CofE, her DS is a few months younger than DS and when she wanted him to be baptised she asked her local Priest to baptise him. He refused as they had recently moved 5 miles away and was under a different parish. This is despite the fact she had lived in his parish her entire life, her Mother still lived there, her Father was buried in that Church and she had been married there.

All I will say is that for all it's faults the Catholic Church has always gone out of it's way to help me when I've needed it. I find it very hard to imagine giving up on something which has bought me such joy. The Catholic Church of today is not the faceless monster people imagine.

The day DS was Baptised was the happiest of my life, if that makes me pathetic for believing in my 'make believe fantasy' then so be it. What is someones fairy at the bottom of the garden is someone elses eternal truth. I believe that is a matter for our souls and not for each other to judge.

So.... what about the request for all English and Welsh Catholics to make special efforts of prayer and reparation in May? How many mumsnetters can we get to promise to attend?

To me it helps that it's Mary's month. And Fridays. And with it being combined with Exposition of th Blessed Sacrament if possible. So I'm going to try &go each week and have faith that my little prayer might do a tiny bit to help someone my church has hurt so badly.

And to the OPs above who suggest the answer is to walk out. I can't just leave and find or found a new church. We the people are the Church, and it's universal. So whether I like it or not, simply switching denominations, chapels or choosing a new earthly leader won't take away my responsibilities to be part of sorting out this mess.

I disagree. In my opinion, as a victim of abuse by members of the Catholic Church's ministry, the Pope has been instrumental in covering abuse and dragging his feet to deal with what has been going on for decades.
The Papacy is tainted. He should go.

maria - Id just like to make my point from below clear - if I were catholic, I wouldnt abandon the church over this, but I would take action to try and force them to change, including stopping going to church and stopping my contributions.

I would want to see the pope go, and radical restructuring to ensure that the cosy little mens club in the Vatican changes, so that the climate that produced this abuse cannot happen again. Celibacy is an issue, because not all priests who cant handle it abuse children - many make advances to women or men, which dont make the news because they are not criminal acts. But then, because of their vows, they are bound in the club of people with something to hide. And then there are the priests who are unhappy/miserable about it but dont break the vows. the whole system needs reforming.

Can I please hijack this thread for a moment and ask some advise of the other Catholic mums? I am new to MN (6 weeks pregnant with my first) and I gather there isn't a very big Catholic scene on the site. I have recently moved to London (Hackney) from Oxford (husband is an East Londoner with lots of friends here, none of which have kids, and I don't yet have my own London friends let alone London mum friends). Our Parish is mixed ethnically and the mums all seem to gather in ethnic-groups, but there is no white group so I am hoping I will fit in with one of the other groups! Do you have any advise on being a Catholic mum and building connections with other local mums-to-be?

I converted to the Catholic faith from the Church of England last autumn. I did so because I believe that what the Catholic Church teaches to be true is true. I want to thank the op for her bravery in taking a stand against some of the anti-catholic feeling she has experienced (and I have witnessed) on MN (and also in the media more widely). I want to respond to some of the points which have been raised on this thread. I should say first of all that I respect the positions posters have taken and not all have been rude or aggressive in defending their pov, though some have.

Regarding the abuse of vulnerable young people: though I have only been a member of the Church for a short time, I feel a deep sense of shame about the terrible deeds perpetrated by some of its priests. It cannot be said often enough that what happened was truly awful, and though no apology can be sufficient to the victims of these abuses, sorry needs to be said over and over again. But we also need to move try on, and to do so there needs to be honesty on all sides. The following points are NOT to excuse or justify what has happened, but to provide a context for honest and fair discussion.

1. The number of priests who have abused young people, and the number of bishops who have colluded (through naivety, though that is still culpable) is a tiny proportion of the whole. One case is one too many, but it is certainly not the case that child abuse is rife or endemic within the church.

1. The abuse claims that have been made generally refer to cases that occurred thirty or so years ago. The Church has since learned from its mistakes and implemented rigorous safeguarding procedures that rival those of any organisation and have often been followed as a model by other organisations.

1. The media has played a central part in uncovering the abuses and for that the church must be grateful. However, not everything that has been reported in the media has been based on solid evidence. By the time the evidence has been found not to stand up to scrutiny the media has moved on to something more interesting.

1. I am convinced that no moral blame can be attached to the present pope. The attempts to drag him in to this have been based on the flimsiest of evidence. His former office (the CDF) only became involved in abuse cases quite recently. In fact the present pope has made it almost a personal crusade to change the culture in the Vatican so that abuse cases are taken very seriously indeed.

1. The requirement for secrecy during investigations has sometimes been misunderstood (not least by bishops who applied it inappropriately). Church investigations need to happen in parallel, before and after investigations by the civil authorities: there have been cases where there is not enough solid evidence for a criminal conviction, and yet the church needs to act to remove a priest from potential victims (yes, the church got this wrong in the past, but things have changed). Secrecy is necessary AT CERTAIN STAGES to protect witnesses and victims and also to protect the good name of a priest who may be innocent. However such secrecy DOES NOT prevent reporting of the allegations to the police which does now happen.

All the above is, as I said, context not excuses. Nothing can excuse the terrible actions of a few, and the shame is felt by the whole church.

This is a long post but I want to say something more generally. To outsiders the Catholic Church is just a club for people who want to belong to it. On that assumption, it is not unreasonable to think that members who are ashamed of things it has done ought to leave in protest. However to a believer the church is something radically different: it is a spiritual reality that makes Christ present in the world. The human aspect of it is flawed, because humans get things wrong, and in every generation members of the church have brough shame upon it through their actions. But the Church is still holy because it is the body of Christ. As I said this will make no sense to a non-believer, indeed it is a mystery and a paradox to believers, but such is the faith of the church. Belonging to the Church is as integral to who you are as your nationality (more so in fact) and you leaving the Church in protest is akin to renouncing your nationality to protest at things the government has done (this is an analogy so I don?t pretend it is perfect). Harimo, on the first page, said the Church has to change, not just apologise. The Church should, can and does change, indeed has changed. But there are some things that the Church cannot change ? the eternal truths which it proclaims. The evil that has been done by individuals doesn?t take away from the Church?s role which is to bear witness to the truth. It is the Church?s duty to challenge society, not follow it blindly, and there will always be those who oppose it ? as Christ himself prophesied.