do you believe in god?

[lilsmum]

if so, why?

btw i am not looking for a arguement or anything, just intrigued as to peoples beliefs.xx

glitterfairy, I still don't believe she was banished, she would have joined the others later. I can see Pullman's hatred of Lewis, His Dark Materials is the antithesis of the Narnia chronicles; God was an evil imposter - you talk about the train crash - Pullman 'murders' quite a few himself!

Ionesmum, there is a lot to delve into, I agree. Lot's more study needed! But for the time being, in my simplistic understanding, I believe I am saved by Jesus' death and resurrection, the method of his death doesn't have a bearing on that. There may or may not have been a census, but I don't think that takes away from the fact that jesus' birth was the fulfilment of many OT prophesies. Can't comment at the moment on the authorship of 2 Thessalonians and other books attributed to Paul, but I believe in their content. I don't think the author of hebrews is really known, either, but does that take away any of its authenticity? Anyway, more study to do I think!

glitterfairy, very interested in what you say about Lewis. I remember reading A N Wilson on his marriage, apperently his wife used to hurl obscenities at him from their bedroom window. I think it all makes him quite human, really. I think ruty said earlier that God works through flawed people like St. Paul, and I think Lewis is a similar case - very much a product of his times and class, but nevertheless I've found his writing very helpful, particularly on the issue of prejudice, believe it or not. RE the Susan thing, I don't attach to much importance to the lipstick, except that I think for Lewis it symbolised all that is shallow about the person Susan has become. Now, I am not claiming that people who own lippy are shallow (of course not, given my own extensive collection ) but if a person cares more for how they look than how they are then that is materialistic and empty-headed. And let's not forget that in the Narnia chronicles the two traitors, Edmund and Eustace, are male, and Lucy, the character who is most enlightened as to the true nature of Aslan and Narnia, is female.

Actually, glitterfairy, I was interested in why you have put so much thought into faith in general, seeing as you say you have no interest in God. You seem widely read on the subject.

jodee, I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'believe'. I can't 'believe' in the whole Bible because it is so contradictory. I also can't believe absolutely in the writings of Paul because he is just a person, as flawed and contradictory as the rest of us. The census is important because it shows how Luke was willing to embroider his story in order to fit his theory - what else was changed? The same applies to the emphasis of the blame for the Crucifixion - of course it doesn't matter from a theological point of view how Jesus died, but it does matter that the story was changed to shift the blame away from the Romans. I wouldn't say that your faith is simplistic at all, IME faith is never simple!

If you are interested in formal study, I started off with a course run by Oxford Brookes, by distance learning. It's very good, and you can opt for tutored study and marked assessment or just have the materials and work at your own pace.

ionesmum, I was brought up in an aethiest household and had a massive and unshakeable conviction that there was a GOd. I got confrimed and baptised at 27 and went every sunday on my own to church since I was 11.

The day I got baptised was, my father said "The worst day of my life". I then carried on being a very active church member regardless of the fact that I ahd major doubts about the church and also about my own beliefs.

The more I read the more I realised that what I was saying and believing was rubbish and nonsense. I tried to square it all but became more and more discontented with the church particularly over its treatment of women.

In the end I came to the conclusion that God was no business of mine and I had none with him/her/it. I have discussed it ad nauseum from both sides of the fence and now feel strongly that religion of the book ie judaism, christianity and islam are narrow and prevent us from seeing what is real and dwelling here on earth with regard for each other, not as a reward for a better life somewhere else, nor because some higher being decrees it but because we are human and should therefore look after each other properly.

Does god believe in me?

yes!

V interesting discussion. Thought I would add my 2ps worth - hope not too late

I do believe in 'god' maybe not the way most do...not as one all knowing all seeing judgemental creator but as a large 'consciousness'[sp]. I have investigated most religions and all have large aspects I cannot believe/live with and so I have to go my own way, believing my own thing. I do think its a shame to miss out on the community aspect of it all though.

becky, have you looked into the Quaker faith?

I have read a bit but actually no its one of the few I haven't! (My DH may finally give up on me if he discovers that I am investigating this, he lost all hope at Buddhism let alone Baha'i and now Quaker lol)

its interesting that a lot of people who are vehemently anti religion havr at one time or other been very into some church, and this is what has put them off God! I am lucky to have had some very positive examples of Christianity around me, my father was campaigning for women priests in 1971 and has always told me God is both Father and Mother, backing it all up with sound theology. Have had some other good examples too. But i do tend to stay away a lot of mainstream Christianity and churches, because i fear i would have the same experience as glitterfairy and papillon.

sorry, glitterfairy, only just spotted your reply to my question - don't know how I missed it!

I agree with you entirely about how the church treats women. We may have women priests but it hasn't made a great deal of difference to some people. And I feel deeply ashamed of my church over the gay issue. And the way our local church is obsessed by its buildings...But I don't believe in church, I believe in God. I think sometimes we all feel 'hang on, this is just not true' but for me experience has taught me otherwise. I don't see Christianity as narrow at all; in fact, I find it very freeing. And I don't love my neighbour because I have to, it's because I want to. It would seem that people have taken your God from you and that is very sad.

Ruty, your dad sounds fab. I tried to avoid going to church for years but in the end had to give in! I have a real love/hate relationship with the church but as I said before, I believe in God, not the church, which is why in some ways I'm optimistic. I think the church as it is now will die, but that there will be something better in its place. And unless people like your dad are in the church nothing will change. I don't know whether I will ever be ordained or not - in the current climate I'm not sure I'd be welcome.

i for one would like you to be ordained ionesmum! But you are a far better person than i to consider it, it would be a difficult job.

ruty, I'm certainly not a better person! Actually one of the reasons I think I feel called is because I'm basically a very selfish person, and I need to serve God in a way that is visible and accountable. I agree I think the priesthood is very difficult, I don't think I could cope with being a pp, but feel more drawn towards retreat work and spritual development. I'd just started down this road when I found I was expecting my first, and I think to follow it properly is too demanding on my family whilst they are so little. It sounds like your dad has been a real sset to teh church. I don't know what Jesus would make of the church today with its palaces and its listed buildings eating money.

agree ionesmum, its appalling the money spent on buildings etc. and also the church has made some huge disastrous investments thanks to shoddy financial advice and lost millions, just showing up now in priests' pensions. No one does it for the money [except for the odd ambitious wanabee bishop] but my dad and mum have always been broke and are now even more so. i do hope you do follow your heart on this one tho, a good priest can make such an enormous difference.

Yes, ruty, the way the church treats retired clergy is shocking.