do you believe in god?

[lilsmum]

if so, why?

btw i am not looking for a arguement or anything, just intrigued as to peoples beliefs.xx

ok smily

so something makes you believe one book about one man to be true above other books about other men/people

what is it? - if it is not your brain wiring then what is it?

why not alla?

why not moses?

Culture. The culture you are brought up in defines the religion you tend to follow.

exactly so its nature plus a bit of nurture, and it still all a bit made up (IMHO

Aaah ruty, that's the nature of the science of heridetary. It dosen't work every time. You get a recessive gene, a dominant one, who knows. Anyway, if it's any consolation, you think the bible's riddled with inconsistencies? You should read the Koran!!

because actually christ's teachings speak to me and make sense. guess its like choosing a politician at the election [ not this election tho, all bloody awful]He isn't actually inconsistent in anything he says. He chose a prostitute as one of his closest allies, he was born a homeless refugee and warned others of the dangers of lusting after money for money's sake. He revolutionized the Old Testament with his principle law of Love [not wishy washy, actually incredibly difficult]. He was not a man of war,like Mohammed. Forgive me, i do not wish to be disrespectful to Muslims, just to clarify that difference.And from the stories about him, he like a drink and a laugh as well. I could go on and on, but won't!

there was a theory that the three kings from the east actually believed christ was the dalai lama, and came to take him to the East to teach him about Buddhism, whichwould account for his missing adolescent years. And that makes sense to me, because his teachings are the perfect marriage between buddhism and judaism!

If you just base faith on a book i.e. the Bible you are idolising an object, however important that book might be. I believe in a man, not a book, who showed us what God is like. It's about personal experience, not words.

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Like it or not, Bloss, the Bible is unreliable, too.

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But Bloss, what I believe is not just about feelings, it's also based on my reading and praying through a lot of theological study, including new interpretations of scripture and books on the background to Jesus' life (such as the books by Geza Vermes). If the Bible is shown to be inaccurate, which it is, then I have to look at other sources and try and discern what it is that I believe to be right - and of course I will be wrong, because I am human, but better to admit the possibilty of error rather than stick to dogmatic certainty. If people reject God, it is because of what people have made him/her, not because of what he/she is.

just a quick word about genes, re slug. Genes can prove susceptibilty or tendency only. They don't explain why some people are athiests and then become committed to a faith, or why some people lose their faith forever. We are so full of so much potential, and our knowlegde of science, genetics and even of god has only just scratched the surface. We're still evolving. i find it difficult in any subject when people say, i refuse to believe so and so until we have concrete proof. History shows us its best to keep an open mind.

I used to believe. Then my mum, who never did a bad thing in her life got ovarian cancer and suffered enormously before she died. What motive would god have for doing that. I appreciate that religious people say "only the good die young because god has chosen them to go to a better life", but why make her suffer?Also she didn't want to go to "a better place", she wanted to be with us, her family that her whole life revolved around.

To answer the thread title, no I don't. I also think it's a shame that there's so much anger,hatred and violence in the world because of religion and people's different beliefs.

Ionesmum, can you give me an example please of where you think the bible is unreliable? (Not being facetious, I would like to have a look for myself (she says, getting dusty bible off shelf. ). I wish I had yours and Bloss' depth of knowledge, I never feel that equipt to join in these discussions, but I have a very strong belief in God... but then there's got to be more to it than just belief as the Devil believes and trembles (James), (or is that inaccurate?)

Hi, jodee! For me, two obvious examples are the Nativity stories, and the detail of the Crucifixion. The Nativity stories are basically introductions to Matthew's and Luke's themes - hence Matthew has magi visiting a King - Matthew being keen to prove Jesus the promised Davidic king - and Luke being concerned with Jesus' concern for the poor and lowly, hence Mary's Magnificat and the visit from the shepherds, who would have been 'unclean' because they had to work on the Sabbath. Most of the Nativity stories is probably apocryphal. Historically they are inaccurate, too; ther e was no census at the time Luke claims there was, and generally Jesus is now thought not to have been born in Bethlehem but in Nazareth. Re the Crucifixion, Jesus was executed by a Roman method of killing. If 'the Jews' had wanted to execute Jesus (and by their laws they had enough to do so if they had wished) they would have stoned him, as they did Stephen. Jesus was crucified by the Romans because he was too dangerous. Because of these inaccuracies, I then have to question what else the Evangelists may have changed or added in order to illustrate their chosen view for their target audience. To me, the fact that I question and doubt the accuracy of the Bible, but still believe in Christ as my Saviour, just shows how great God is.

kerfuffle, I am so sorry about your mum.

i know this is going to be very unpopular but why do people beleive something just because it is written in a book? and even if it is 'true' the story would have been told and re-told, translated and re-translated so many times it probably bears no relation to the actual 'facts'. almost like chinese whispers.

Hi Ionesmum - thanks for that! I will have a look into all of that tonight.

Sorry Bloss and Ruty and ionesmum I have lost it a bit here but am getting back to the thread.

I agree with pullman over cs lewis when he says that he is detestable.Narnia is marked by a hatred of the physical world and that the rejection of susan is that of her not getting salvation. He dislikes her growing up and getting too adult and so she is banished.
Then as Pullman says

"Now here are these children who have gone through great adventures and learned wonderful things and would therefore be in a position to do great things to help other people. But they're taken away. He doesn't let them. For the sake of taking them off to a perpetual school holiday or something, he kills them all in a train crash. I think that's ghastly. It's a horrible message. "

Sorry I agree but then of course I am coloured by stories of CS Lewis and Tolkein who wouldnt let women talk in their lectures at Oxford because they hated them so much.

Do ignore that last post if you want but I htink it all goes to stories and the bible is another story you can disgree with it or not but it is a story. BY the way bloss stories can relate to a reality but may not be more than someones recollections which is what the bible is.

glitterfairy, God is only 'detestable' because that is what people make him out to be. I agree entirely that Christian thought has been dominated by sexism - but then so has most thought until fairly recently. Actually the ancient Celtic church and society allowed women to fill all roles until it was superceded by Rome. And there is now a huge field of feminist theology that ir evealing a very different picture of the early church than the one commonly recognised. The church to which I belong is riddled with sexism -in fact I've just written about it - but you can't blame God for the stupidity and prejudice of people.

jodee - there is also some agreement among scholars that Paul didn't write all the letters that are attributed to him. I am trying to find the list of which are, which aren't, and which are ambiguous, but if you'd like to google it then look for 'deutero-pauline' books of the Bible.

ionesmum I didnt say that God was detestable just CS Lewis!

I would never have that much to say to God in all honesty. I much prefer my argumetns to be in the here and now!

Ooops! Sorry! I hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm genuinely interested to know why you have put so much thought into a subject (or 'person', if you like) in which you say you have so little interest.

Glitterfairy, I don't agree with the picture painted of CSLewis as a misogynist; Lucy was the heroine and Edmund (and one other in a later book) were complete 'cads', as he would have said. I don't see susan as being banished, merely growing up and amking her own choices, nothing wrong with a liking of lipstick!

jodee, he banishes susan because she likes lipstick! He shows a dislike of those girly things.

ionesmum, I grew up on stories of his bad behaviour at Oxford when my aunt and mother were there. I am uncomfortable with childrens books being revered in the way the narnia ones are without enough critical thought, particularly when they contain subtle messages about god and life.